Swing Discussion Boards > Ceroc Teaching

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Dancelf, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    No...that is the current fad of "competition ballroom style" latin by younger/newer generation dancers. It isn't even considered the best or good by many. Not knocking it...just saying.....
  2. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    David.. are you nuts ??????... that is the FIRST thing "we " stress,, I dont know any teacher, and i mean " teacher", who would not discuss and stress timing and eventually rhythm, the whole genre is predicated on those 2 principles .

    The major problem that exists in the Uk ( and in the states ) is the lack of training for those who profess to teach a subject, of which they are generally ill informed .You seem, from your posts, to be getting teachers who are woefully inadequate .

    And as to F/Trot, I teach weekly, a social level F/T to 2 classes.. there are regular weekly dances here, and all of the B/room dances are played and danced to, particularly F/T being the most popular ( mainly 40s/50s music ).
  3. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    PLEASE dont tell that to the millions of Latinos in Central and S . America.. not to mention the "Islands " in the Caribb.

    What you see on a comp.floor is far removed in nearly evey possible aspect ( some people call this progress ?? ) .

    I coach and teach both Intern. style and street style Latin.. never shall the twain meet !
  4. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    (Tangotime, re your post 82) I was going to comment on that, too, TT, but thought that must be reading it incorrectly b/c no one would ever really say that....and mean it.
  5. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, that is sometimes a common belief. I think it is more to do with people not understanding WHAT they see danced .

    I had a student who was a musician and also a music teacher, who said that the music sounded alll the same !..
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yeah. the dangers of hitting the "new posts" button...

    If you're a Proper Dancer, you can just look at a follower and she'll do whatever you want. Apparently.
  7. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yes, that's pretty much it I think.

    As for the WCS thing - it's interesting that WCS is growing in the UK, and that growth is mainly driven by people coming from Ceroc / MJ. So in other words, MJ is helping WCS. So, of course, you'd naturally expect WCS people to be appreciative of this, right? Right?

    Guess which single dance form causes the most friction for MJ dancers? Guess which form has the worst rep. for "snootiness"?

    As a general point, I've found that advanced dancers rarely pour scorn on any other dance form. If they do, then they're not advanced dancers.

    Case in point:
    Hmmm. 17 posts. I think I'll simply assume you're a troll from now on...
  8. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yes, that's taking it too far. On the other hand, in the UK, ballroom dancing has been dormant for decades - but now it's increasing, so hopefully will revive.

    Yeah, I don't get that either... :confused:

    We should all be enthusiastic about dancing, I hope. Whilst still retaining a sense of perspective, and not dissing other dance forms.
  9. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I've done hundreds of salsa classes over 15 years, and taught a few myself, and I've never had a salsa class mention the phrase "time value". That's what I meant.

    Of course, salsa classes almost by definition talk about timing - that's 90% of the dance - but not in such terms.

    Yes - there's no real organisation of salsa teachers. Or AT teachers for that matter.
  10. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I dont dis believe you, but one should not extrapolate that into your findings ( all scenes are parochial by nature so it can and does happen) but I can tell you from my vast experience, there are many who make this part of their mantra.. ALL dance is about " time" value, and how , why, where, and when we choose to use it.. that is the distinguishing factor between variations, and even genres .

    Its the core of musicality .
  11. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    What - you mean London isn't The World? :confused:

  12. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    It used to be when I lived there !... :rolleyes:
  13. Albanaich

    Albanaich New Member

    Dancelf, JW, When I talk about other dances 'adapting' to MJ, what I mean is other dances adaptating to the MJ/Ceroc social/teaching environment.

    Locally MJ is the sort of 'glue' or background within which Tango, WCS, Salsa and Lindy are operating and they have to operate within that environment.

    I go to any class I see faces that I've encountered in MJ - not so much the other way round.

    The formal teaching methods that many Ballroom teachers still operate with just don't work when you have competion from MJ.

    And MJ is completely inclusive - if I go to a local MJ event, I'll find flyers, leaftles, etc from all the other dance forms including WCS, Tango, Salsa. It makes no attempt to compete as a 'better' or 'more sophisticated' dance, but rather as a superior social activity.

    If the right music comes on people at an MJ's even will do Salsa, Cha-Cha or WCS if they can do it. It's not an issue.
  14. jophil28

    jophil28 New Member

    "Current fad of competition ballroom style.." .The comments here just get sillier from folk who have no involvement in the Dancesport world.
    SO you are an unknown AT dancer critiqing an internationally recognised B/R dancer.

    Post back when your technique is one tenth as good as Slaviks.
  15. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Dont want to speak for A.H. but we BOTH are coaches with many yrs standing and were involved ,probably from my view point, before you knew it existed .. the point that you seem to miss is this.... Salsa, ceroc etc. are SOCIAL dances that have a useful purpose in the large circle and fraternity of dance ( you dont have to like them, but respect is important ). I do dis agree with Cerocs "take " on things,, but.. it does get people dancing ( for the want of a better term )

    What you also fail to realise, that ALL Comp. dance are hybrids of social dances that are multi yrs older than the Comp. " 10 "... not everyone is remotely interested in the Comp. scene.

    In all my yrs as a teacher and owner , in the past, of many schools, without the social aspect I would not have survived for 1 month.
    Here now in the UK, pretty much ALL schools depend upon the average type student to keep us in business.
  16. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    But it's a different business model - with some exceptions, there's no need to adapt.

    Ceroc is taught in large halls, with 100+ students lined up in rows, and the teachers up high on a stage. Salsa and AT are taught in pub function rooms or similar, with 10-20 students arranged in a circle around the teachers.

    Some things Ceroc does well, which can cross over. The emphasis on standards for teacher, the welcoming atmosphere, the well-managed class rotation, and (possibly) the taxi dancers.

    But everything else it does, doesn't apply.

    Locally in Scotland, maybe. Not locally in London, that's for sure - and probably very few other places.

    The AT scene exists independently of the Ceroc scene in London. As does the salsa scene. OK, the WCS scene doesn't, but then the WCS scene is tiny anyway.

    Not sure about that, but I don't have enough experience of these formal teaching methods to know for sure.

    Not in London you won't. Hell, you won't even find flyers for other Ceroc franchises in London events.
  17. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Unfortunately I think some of those participating in this thread need to be reminded of DF Guideline #4:

    Any posts that continue to violate these community standards will be dealt with as indicated.
  18. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    While I have nothing against Ceroc as a dance, especially as I've never even seen it, based on the attitude taken by some of its adherents in this very thread I have certainly begun to develop a very negative predisposition. :?
  19. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

  20. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    You are correct that the comments get sillier from ignorant indiviuals. Thanks to TT and SDS for backing me.

    Yes, Jophil, my post comes from having been in the biz for many years; knowing BR and DS very well; being a certified adjudicator/examiner in both; and known for specializing in AT and Latin. And, sorry, wrong again, I am a well known AT teacher, and recognized by the Buenos Aires Council of Cultural Affairs as being world class.

    Now, having said that, here's my question. When I clearly posted that I was not disagreeing w/ the poster, nor did I dislike the dancers, please do not take thread space, but do PM me and tell me why you thought it necessary to attack me personally on a public forum when you obviously know nothing about me?

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