Salsa > Cha-cha = Crossbody?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by BugBear, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. nowhiteshoes

    nowhiteshoes New Member

    so how do peolpe dance cha cha (cha cha cha?). i thought it was danced as explained previously (ET2 with the extra cha cha) but doing salsa moves in time with the music. im new to it so would appreciate enlightenment. is it a bit of a fuax pas to simply do salsa/mambo moves using et2 but with adding the cha cha steps - one girl told me not to do any moves (she was a "self taught" on2-er). her timing was also suspect.
  2. tj

    tj New Member

    Well, just like how we have our salsa snobs, we've got cha cha snobs, too. I've seen numerous times people turning up their nose at someone who's dancing cha cha like salsa. It's up to you whether you want to let it prevent you from dancing it or not. But I'd say that the majority of the dancers in the salsa scene are repeating/translating their salsa moves into cha cha timing (myself included).
  3. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    Josh can probably give you a list of moves that are directly translatable between the two dances? My totally non-pro experience is that a lot of the basic turns and leads are nearly identical. Still, it is amazing how different a dance you can get by just stretching the ChaCha part to as big as your dance space allows. To me, I can be doing nearly identical basic moves and have a totally different dance feel.

    There are a bunch of really fun salsa "lets play twister" patterns that don't seem to fit ChaCha very well. However, the linear stretchability of ChaCha adds a bunch of patterns that I don't think exist in salsa either.
  4. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    First-- its a syncop. bar--that is to say 4th and 1st beats have an " and " between them.
    This stays there consistently during the dance ( we can play with that at advanced levels )

    The majority of the moves that you see in foundation work have been transposed from Bolero, Rumba and Mambo.

    Its parents, Guajira and triple Mambo are the fore runners of todays modern version .-- and yes -- many of the steps are interchangeable .
  5. nowhiteshoes

    nowhiteshoes New Member

    fine ive got the timing and can dance on time etc ....but

    why does anyone have a problem (cha cha snob etc?) with simply doing salsa moves to cha cha whilst using cha cha timing? if they do?

    im not going to change what i do, im just curious.

    also how is cha cha supposed to be danced move-wise (according to the cha cha police)?

  6. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    I think you are getting to concerned with what others think or do-- it doesnt matter .

    Please yourself-- no one else can !

    As to " moves " as you put it-- read above .
  7. fire_dancer

    fire_dancer New Member

    I compete in ballroom, and there's a world of difference between the social and competitive scene. My view is... if it's easily leadable/followable (salsa moves in cha cha) then by all means, go for it when you're dancing socially! Have fun and don't worry about what others are saying. :)
  8. nowhiteshoes

    nowhiteshoes New Member

    thanks so far... im not that bothered if people think im doing it correctly. its my way or the highway :rolleyes:.

    but i was only intrigued as to the "correct" (note inverted commas ;)) way.

    ps ive got too much else going on without worrying 'bout onlookers.
  9. gclarke

    gclarke New Member

    Good for you. I tried Salsa but didn't like the class itself much and to be honest, I like my cha cha more.

    One of the things that made me post though, was the difference between the Rumba and the Cha Cha. I know I've asked 'Is this a good song to cha cha to?' or rumba etc., and been told it's a little too slow or a little too fast.

    And I'm sure to most here that is true.

    But to be frank, I could cha cha to a rumba and rumba to a cha cha and be quite happy doing it. I know that would be blasphemy to many but what the heck.

    Just wouldn't want anyone around with a video while I was doing it ;)

    Enjoy your Salsa/Cha Cha!

  10. tj

    tj New Member

    If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that it's likely that the critics have spent $$, time, and energy on cha cha workshops, and are being snobby at everyone else taking the "easy way-out" by translating their salsa moves.
  11. BugBear

    BugBear New Member

    I wasn't asking if it was polite or politicly correct to do it. I just wanted to know if it is often seen. It doesn't bother me in anyway and as long as they keep their feet away from mine they can even do the chicken dance. :)
  12. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    I just want to be sure nobody is thinking I'm a ChaCha snob. The question was about ChaCha just being cross-body salsa? In my area, western US, the cross-body elements are just a part of what dancers do in ChaCha. Typical dancers have lots of side-to-side elements. So the dance does look quite different from "salsa with a couple extra beats in the middle".
  13. noobster

    noobster Member

    I wouldn't say it's a faux pas but you have to pick the right moves. The fun of cha-cha is that it's slow enough to really have fun and play with the beats. I like my leader to just do a few simple turns and cbls with a lot of enjoyment and style, and leave me lots of room to enjoy and style on my own. I feel trapped when my leader just churns through patterns. (True for salsa as well but even more for chacha.) I've had chachas that were done almost completely separated, just with lots of chase turns and playing around, maybe a led CBL here and there, and those have been the most fun and memorable ones.

    Re timing: Pretty much everyone in the on2 scene in NYC did a "chachacha-2-3, chachacha 2-3" kind of timing. Out here I see lots of people doing a "1-2 chachacha, 1-2 chachacha." Depending on the music this can be OK, but many chachas really demand the chachacha be on the 4&1 IMHO. I'm guessing the ballroom chacha is typically done to a somewhat different musical selection from what you hear at most salsa clubs and socials.
  14. nowhiteshoes

    nowhiteshoes New Member

    thanks noobster, this is the timing i use except i write and think of it in a slightly different way (but its the same). i tend to think 123 4 & 567 8&

    this may be a good way of sorting out my woeful shines :rocker:
  15. SnowDancer

    SnowDancer New Member

    I'm not sure, but that could be the same as what's taught up here as "On2" cha-cha: "1-2-3 chacha, 5-6-7 chacha", where the numbered steps are identical to ET2 and each "chacha" matches the tumbao hits "4&", "8&".
  16. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    You have that backwards.

    ET2 as you put it, are identical to it .

    It stems from the Triple Mambo and Guajira ( before Eddie was out of school ), and the Mambo Box.
    The time signature is simply this-- 2 bars of music joined by a Sycopation as in 1234- and 1234 .
    The 4 and 1 is the count designation.

    the emphasis of the "notes " may ,and can differ ,depending on style .
  17. noobster

    noobster Member

    I guess. I get confused when people notate it as a 'cha-cha' rather than 'cha-cha-cha,' because I think of it as a triple step and then emphasis on the next 'big' step, which is the 2 (or 6 - but honestly I don't hear cha-chas in double bars the way I do salsas; probably the absence of clave, but they just sound like 1234-1234 to me).

    Saying 'cha-cha 1-2-3' makes it sound like a double step and then three equally emphasized steps on the 1-2-3, rather than a triple with two 'big steps'. But yeah, this is getting very nitpicky. :p It's all good.
  18. I love, love, love to dance cha cha/guajira. We have had this or a similar discussion in the past in a different thread or in a different forum and from tangotime's explanation I assume that I do not dance cha cha but guajira. Anyway, I dance it the Latino way, basic step backwards and in front counting 1-2 cha cha cha. My Latino husband had to "un-train" me doing the cha cha step sideways what I learned at dance class at the tender age of 15, and go backwards and to the front. I love it the Latino way, it is so elegant and sexy!

    The first time I saw it danced the Latino way was in a salsa disco in San José/Costa Rica in 1991. I had just started learning salsa and getting into the Latino scene and I was at awe watching a couple on an elevated dancefloor (where only the good dancers danced) dance a great cha cha to real Latin cha cha music (at that time I saw cha cha danced only in ballroom competitions on TV to American music). THAT was the way I wanted to be able to dance cha cha!

    Had a chance to dance one in the park on Sunday to Poncho Sanchez performing live! Gozando......:bouncy:

    And for me the epitome of cha cha sophistication is Stacey López, the king of cha cha: (performance) (workshop)

    Cha Cha the Cuban way, as you see it danced spontaneously somewhere in a backyard in Cuba and kind of what you would dance at a social setting, very spontaneous:

    It is hard to find "real" Latino cha cha/guajira videos on youtube, it took me a while to find those.
  19. noobster

    noobster Member

    That one is just beautiful salsera_alemana. Thanks for sharing.
  20. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    i so agree

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