Tango Argentino > Changing the embrace..pleasing or not?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Mario7, May 6, 2010.

  1. borisvian13

    borisvian13 Member

    Subliminal, I agree with most of what you've said above. The problem is simply that you don't read carefully, sorry:)

    First, I've never said that bending at the ankles is impossible but that while walking the angle at this bending changes from acute to obtuse, hence it just doesn't make sense to talk about constant geometric lean from the ankles.

    Second, I've never said "bend from the torso" ( that doesn't make much sense anyway) but lean from the torso's center. Here lean means "apply force from a center of mass of an object". Perhaps a better verb is "to share weight", but apparently I already caught the bad habit of using "lean" and "share weight" interchangeably from this forum :)...
    I promise to use "lean" only to mean "geometric lean" in the future.

    Finally, how do you make more space for one's feet, you ask. I'd say you use the natural S-shape of your spine and make it slightly more expressive, again, using the natural flexibility of the body. Bending at a hinge is а too mechanical idea and it doesn't describe the situation well.

    Ampster: Any video of say Javier and Geraldin will do, they have what I'd call the ideal posture. Of course, not all good dancers have exactly the same posture, but rather milder versions of it, so to speak:)
  2. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Thank you. I get it. It looks like "Milonguero" to me— minus the embellishments, of course.

    [YT]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKY30XWHK_o&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKY30XWHK_o&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YT]
  3. tanjive

    tanjive New Member

    You mean press the chest (front of torso) into the partner. Trying to press inside of them, like a boxer has to punch past an opponent. As opposed to bending at waist like a hinge like you would for leapfrog game.

    I find a deep breath helps to inflate the girth from the spine so will give you the space required. I found in the last few months you need to follow that initial embrace inflation by breatihing into the abdomen. The chest is not rising and falling and helps to maintain good constant contact throughout the dance.
  4. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    So he's saying you just bend forward at the hips?
  5. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

  6. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    but I would say the opposite;
    bend back from the hips
  7. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Then we just have to agree to disagree.
  8. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member


    Everyone listen to me and shut up! :p
    (ok... listen to Peaches too... what do we do if Peaches and I disagree? Has that ever happened?)
  9. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you, to me, you have it backwards... what we are espousing requires that you NOT maintain the exact bend in both knees the whole time. In fact, flexible knees are required.

    So your picture:

    isn't very useful as a visual aid, because there are no knees in these legs.

    should look more like this:
    / \
    \ \

    and at the point that the front leg is:

    the back leg will be

    OK... that picture doesn't work too well...

    what I mean is that the leg straightens to extend and bends as weight is applied. If I'm leaning, there isn't a point where both legs are straight at the same time with my weight centered over them (and I can't draw it with punctuation). In fact, If I am leaning, my weight CAN"T be centered over my legs as I'm transferring weight. If it was, I wouldn't be leaning anymore.

    (edited becase DF eliminated my extra spaces, so my pictures don't line up... How do people make punctuation pictures work?)
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    My impression was that the diagram was of the legs only.
  11. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Oooh, I love that video!
  12. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    *steals the song* More milonga music! (Dude, I need to find some more tangos I like. I think 60% of my practice list is now Vals and Milonga.)
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    That means ~40% is tango. Not bad. 30/30/40.
  14. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    Bending your spin will give you a hunched posture. I don’t see that in Geraldine’s and Javier’s vid. If I take a look at this example I recognize the usual slight leaning forward in Javier’s dancing – starting from the ankles just as it should have been "impossible".
  15. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Since quite a few people didn't understand you, perhaps blaming the readers is not particularly productive (or accurate?). This was not the only response you gave that was somewhat insulting to the person to whom it was addressed. It seems to me you could make your point without these sorts of comments.

    If you were intending to be funny or joking, it's not reading that way to me.
  16. ant

    ant Member

    Would it be fair to say that the look of Geraldine's back comes from a tilt in the pelvis rather than any messing around with the spine?
  17. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Still in my ears: Dont stick your bottom out!

    ..tell you how hard it actually was/is to break this habit !
  18. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Speaking only from personal experience, I could say that it could just be that she's female and has a butt. I can't tell you the number of times my teacher would stop and ask me if I was arching my back and not keeping my center toned...it didn't feel like it to him, but it looked like it in the mirror. After a couple of times of me telling him that, no, I was not arching my back, I was keeping my center toned, I was not sticking my butt out...he learned that I just have an a$$. I'd have to really tuck my pelvis under in order to not have that curve from my lower back to my butt. Heels don't help with this.

    I'd wager that Geraldine has the same thing going on.

    ETA: I think the look of her back is also exacerbated by her clothing. The bottom hem of her shirt stays level and straight, but the front of the skirt is a bit lower than the back. It's natural, it happens. It just accentuates the look of having her pelvis tilted back.
  19. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Um, she's wearing spiky heels, the effect of which is to lengthen the leg line, and also tilt the pelvis, causing the butt and boobs to stick out.
  20. borisvian13

    borisvian13 Member

    Sorry, I stop with this topic here.
    I use the language of basic mechanics and anatomy and I have defined precisely all terms mentioned in this language.
    From the other side I hear only self-referential highly ambiguous "tango" jargon of the type "I mean what I mean, what my teacher meant to mean", etc.

    For example, I asked several times for a definition of what "leaning from the ankles" should mean. There was no response.
    You can't define it, but you're all convinced that it's true:)

    If you can't define the expressions you use in standard mechanical/geometrical terms, I really don't see a common ground for discussion.

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