Tango Argentino > Close embrace

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Shaka, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Mosca Negra

    Mosca Negra New Member

    Nothing funny about that Zoopsia59. I have always believed that the mark of good Nuevo Tango is based on the number of people on and off the floor the dancers make contact with. I have heard that in competitive NT you get points for kicking those around you, but can't confirm that myself.:confused:
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Agree with Zoo. Murat not a good dancer?!?! You obviously have absolutely no clue. I have danced with, and taken lessons from, Murat. While you may not like his style a lot of the time (I see a lot of performances of his that I don't like at all.), his technique is phenomenal, his teaching is amazing, his musicality is incredible, and he is hands down one of the all-time best leaders I have ever felt. Period. Oh, and while his performances are often not social-style at all, he is extremely capable of dancing amazingly well in extremely close conditions (the likes of which I have encountered only a couple of times outside of BsAs).

    Your ideas as to what is "wrong" and "right" for at is...quite simply...extremely wrong.
  3. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Zoopsia and others, didn't you get the memo? Please refer to the very first post.

    "I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness. If you can't, don't try, that should be the spirit in all milongas."

    Any further questions?:rolleyes:
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    LOL. Very good point.

    Note to self: do not feed the trolls. :rolleyes:
  5. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Aww... but they're so cute when they are sitting in the nest with their mouths open wide and begging! And they give me a chance to let my snarky side fly!
  6. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I know it's actually not funny to get slammed with a tango shoe. It's just on this vid it comes as a surprise that would appear comical to people who also laugh at America;s Funniest Home Videos. People in those things get hurt MUCH worse and they are aired for LAUGHS.

    I'll also add that I was present for this demo and no one was hurt. If the guy sitting there had actually been injured, I wouldn't laugh.
  7. Mosca Negra

    Mosca Negra New Member

    My apology Zoopsia59. The moment in the video you discuss was worth a giggle.

    My comment was directed towards my experiences sharing a crowded dance floor with a few of the more extroverted NT dancers. At a traditional milonga on a small floor, a leader who had complained off pista that one of the karate style boleos a young NT leader led had hit and bruised his partner.. The young man replied to the older; "go large or go home, old man."

    That said I much admired his impressive black and white plaid baggy pants and matching black and white saddle style tennis shoes.
  8. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    A while ago on another AT discussion board I read an interesting commentary from an international ballroom specialist, a world class dancer and adjudicator, to the following video:


    (Unfortunately, the discussion was not in English, so it would be rather pointless to post a direct link here).

    According to his analysis, based on musicality, posture, connection, alignment, movement dynamics -- all the basic criteria the IDSF judges look for in the first place -- those couples of old milongueros, should they suddenly appear on a ballroom dance competition floor, would get very high scores.
    So, surprise, basic criteria for elegance in partner dancing actually do not differ that much from one style to another, because the law of physics, physiology, the body mechanics we have been working with are still the same. Elegance from that point of view is efficiency, effortlessness in musical expression.
    Of course, at times it takes a trained eye to see the good from the bad and the ugly.

    Now, I realize that the majority of dancers the OP has observed at his local milongas might look very different from ones we see in the video. Still it is not enough reason to claim that close embrace Argentine tango cannot be done with elegance. This kind of statement, at best, comes from a rather uninformed place, and at worst, is inflammatory.
  9. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    There ARE many similarities between comtemporary AT and "ballroom", as stated.
    In some (many?) cases deciding that what you see in AT is wrong or poor techinique... is wrong.
  10. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    I agree.
  11. Shaka

    Shaka New Member

    No he's not. Too much wrong steps. Too much bending. Lacks of stability.

    I'm not talking about what the follower may feel when dancing. I also have a great tango nuevo teacher who can perform quite well with any beginner. Good leader does not necessarily mean good dancer. My teacher also lacks of stability which is quite unelegant.

    I am right because I can explain to anybody why one dancer is better than other.

    Homer Ladas for example looks much better than Murat Erdemsel. One of the key reasons is his carefulness to orientate correctly his pelvis. It's a simple rule and that makes him look much more elegant. But he's not the perfect dancer I have in mind (too much bending).
  12. Shaka

    Shaka New Member

    Yes, I am a troll. Would it be interesting otherwise? :rolleyes:
  13. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    He also goes to milongas dressed like a surf bum. :p
  14. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    And you too :)

    Well yes, that's pretty much what differentiates a forward / back step from a sidestep. However, I'm not sure whether that makes sense in the context of a milonguero ocho, in that milonguero ochos don't really involve sidesteps, so no pivotting is needed. They're simply a set of repeated cross steps, one after the other.

    I'm not even sure if they should be called "ochos", but we're probably stuck with the name.

    Crosses are an exception. When you think about it, any cross by definition involves an element of diagonal-stepping.

    Sure - but this isn't a "how to do ochos in close embrace", we're talking about a different type of movement.

    When I learnt this movement, a few months back, I kept being reprimanded by my teacher for pivotting to lead the start. It's only now that I realise why she was reprimanding me - because there's no pivot involved in the step, therefore I should not pivot my chest to lead it.
  15. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yep - all that makes sense to me. To be fair to Shaka, it's easy to get confused - I know I did, when I started with them; I thought of them as "really small ochos with a mini-pivot", and they're not.
  16. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Argentine Tango is not "ballroom tango danced socially", so I don't think this is a valid comparison. Argentine Tango is not Ballroom Tango - any more than, say, mambo is Rumba. Less, in fact; AT and BR have very different styles, postures and so on.

    So I'd seriously suggest shaking off ballroom habits - yes, some commonalities apply, but you'll probably find it less than helpful to try to think of them.

    Mmmm, I'm not sure that Argentine tango is all about elegance. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say it's all about connection.
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    The problem is that "elegant", like "beautiful" or "sexy", is just another adjective which by it's nature, is subjective.

    I like your definition of elegant, but it may not be everyone's. For some, "elegant" may have specific meanings such as elongated lines and steps, straightened knees, etc. In fact, by some people's definition, a short, fat dancer can't ever be elegant because it's about a certain appearance, not just a certain way of moving.
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yes, well clearly that isn't as important as how it looks. :rolleyes:
    After all, there's no such thing as social dancing.. only performance.
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    BWA HA HA!

    OH Geez. :rolleyes:

    That means that I'M right too! Because I can explain why one dancer is better than another!

    Now what happens when your explanation and mine are in total contradiction? Only one of us can be right, and it's going to be ME! (yep.. it will be because after all, I can EXPLAIN IT. And, in case I forgot to mention.. I am right!)

    I said I'm right, therefore I am. End of discussion.
  20. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    So maybe you should use as an example someone that IS the perfect dancer you have in mind.

    Besides, as another poster pointed out, Homer wouldn't be allowed into your milonga because of the dress code.

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