Discussion in 'Salsa' started by thespina13, Jul 21, 2006.
You're a robot.
I'm actually a butt guy myself - but what i find funny is that i wasn't always this way...
When i was younger, i was far more interested in the more obvious feminine ...ahem..."assets". I remember watching a movie where the lead actor kept trying to grab the female leads booty, and all i could think was, "why is he trying to grab her THERE?"
10 years later and now i understand....
well if 2 year olds are masturbating, they must be advanced, I bet their salsa is on fire. we must change all the kindergarten and preschool curricula to masturbation so that everyone can be natural "dancers" :lol: please do look up that word
And besides, I don't see anyone here saying sex is taboo. Merely that as intelligent beings, who are little bit smarter than animals, we can discern the place and time, both are important, as is the person (or in some cases "persons" lol). but bottomline here, if salsa is your source of sexual satisfaction (or sexual "healing" heeheeh!), then I gotta say you got a lot more issues to worry about than arguing the difference between being sexy and being sexual
the word (sexualized) doesn't mean whatever idea it is that you are trying to convey. the connotation of that word is more leaning towards the word 'gender' than the implication of 'sexual identity emnating out of sexual feelings or acts'.
and children are indeed born with the same basic instincts that are more apparent in adults. masturbation as a conscious act to acheive a certain adult-world result is clearly not what squirrel meant in the context of children. but as an unconscious act of self-exploration and desire, it does exist in kids. if you've had a child or been around one who was an infant (perhaps a sibling), surely you remember the times when the child had to be taught not to constantly/instinctively touch herself/himself 'there', right?
sexy vs. sexual = you are arguing about words that are used diferently by different people, and are almost synonyms anyway. the difference is subtle and not necessarily even existent.
also, sexual satisfaction is not always orgasmic. there are different levels and modes. like flirting in bars, eye contact with a cute stranger, being eyed by the opposite sex when you are looking particularly good, being complimented on your new hairstyle and so on are all perfectly valid forms of sexual satisfaction, albeit at a very simple and subtle level - these are forms of satisfaction that make you feel desired as a person and also as a man/woman (i.e., sexual identity). Salsa is just another one of those contexts and it being a source of sexual satisfaction is truly not indicative of any issues.
I think you know what I mean, and defining "levels" is sort of backing away from that. When salsa is all there is, there's a problem
And obviously you don't think children should be intentionally sexualized, for a good reason? This gives a new meaning to "playdates" LOL. anyway you made my point, parents who train their children to dance salsa are not aware that they are supposed to be learning to simulate sex (well most parents i think heh)
And by the way I'm a bit confused about the purpose of this strain: are you guys saying that just because something exists that it should remain the status quo?
That because some kids are exposed to certain aspects of sex "too early" that it should be the norm? Or that because some use salsa for sexual gratification/satisfaction everyone else has to be that way too?
btw, thespina you should thank me for making this an interesting thread
africana, would you like to thank me for creating the thread? And yes, thank you. Without your contributions, this thread would be completely boring and without merit. I'm sure I haven't said a single interesting thing yet.
Anyhow, on the topic of children, salsa, adults and sex...
Since no-one seems willing to actually look up the relatively objective dictionary definition of "sexualize", and we keep arguing based on entirely personal and subjective interpretations of the topic as if we're geniuses (genii?) , here's a dictionary definition:
tr.v. sex·u·al·ized, sex·u·al·iz·ing, sex·u·al·iz·es
To make sexual in character or quality
Or: make sexual, endow with sex, attribute sex to
These definitions when applied to children would suggest that either children are sexless creatures before adults, culture or other endows with them gender/ reproductive attributes. We all know this isn't true, so the implication of africana's "sexualize" is where we change the nature of a child to reflect a sexual identity that isn't inherent to it. Exaggerated, adult-like, willful perhaps, as opposed to innocent and spontaneous, and applied to actions or activities that wouldn't normally have an overt sexual character.
Children make great dancers. The're flexible, fast, expressive and lithe. They have an amazing capacity to learn quickly and improvise. Their mastery of skills is unparelleled in the adult world. They are even a little on the sensuous side. Naturally. Children do have sexual identities and enjoy inter-gender relationships and activities. I am completely in agreement that this should never be stifled, nor made taboo. But africana is not disputing that. Children should not be painted up and paraded around to model some kind of adult understanding of sex, or satisfy a fetish of sorts. I classify a lot of child beauty pageants in this category.
When it comes to salsa, there are fantastic child dancers. Yes. Who don't make their dances full of sexual tension. Wonderful. But is what is adequate, wonderful, even competitively brilliant salsa for children, totally and fully adequate for adults? I would argue not. In any aspect of life. Except, perhaps, faith. In life, and in dance, we move beyond childhood to something more sophisitcated and complex. There is, of course and without question, a realm of adult interaction that, for some of us, merrily includes sexual tension. Being sexual. Sometimes, depending on your personality or culture, you prefer to keep it very exclusive and judicious. That's fantastic.
Sometimes, it's broad and underscores a lot of your interaction. It can even be present while eating, drinking, doing dishes or gardening. It's a certain sexual energy infused into life itself. I fall into this category, and I always have. Salsa, in an adult world, likely has a much more complex context that it would in a child dancer's world. It varies in purpose and content for every dancer. Its place in a dancer's life will satisfy all manner of goals in differing proportions as we grow to be the more specific, more varied, far more complicated creatures we are as adults. That means that, without having "issues", africana can dance with all the earthy, rhythmic, forceful, genuine and skilled fun she can muster, sprinkling some flirt into it if she sees fit, and dropping into knee-quivering dances on those rare occassions where it happens and it's right and she chooses it. It also means that I can, without having "issues", seek one sexually charged dance after another and walk off the floor sweaty and delerious, while simultaneously paying attention to all the skill, fun, technique and athleticism the dance inspires. It also means I'm allowed to feel frustrated that I'm finding very very very few people with whom to connect on this level, and am busy trying to understand the group psychology in this city.
I find that a population that's generally insanely polite to be a bit on the dry side. And if things, on occassion, get randy, they wind up being brutish and chauvanistic. There seems to be very little middle ground. I don't know how many of you live in Edmonton, but it's a peculiar characteristic of this place. Could be the massively conservative slant here. anyhow, when I visited Paris and lived for short periods in Greece, when I saw girls walking aroud holding hands, or beaches charges with a sexual awareness and enjoyment and casualness, I felt like I was HOME. It was so refreshing. Other people may not feel that way in that kind of environment, or may have experienced something different in those same places, but for me, this is the kind of living I relish. And I don't think I'm weird. I know it's wishful thinking on my part to want that here, since it is a whole different world. It doesn't stop me from feeling the need, though.
Hope this wasn't too boring a post. Hope someone comes along to make things more interesting again.
actually, thats how most parents bring up children, by intentionally making them aware of their own sexuality, feelings, desires before they are ready to explore them on their own. it usually takes the form of too much supervision of adolescents, early separation of sexes, introducing different social mores and clothes for different genders, single-sex restrooms, curfew, conditions for dating or having sex and so on. This starts early on when a parent makes a little child not touch himself/herself 'there' and teaches them that it is a bad habit. The awareness starts then, and only continues to grow. It doesn't show because it is repressed (and most kids know it is 'wrong' to show it because it will displease the parents).
You can't really fight nature, and it is in our nature to act sexually. The trick is to learn to teach children how to use it appropriately. I've seen primary school kids dance ballroom and salsa. I dance every week with girls who are only in middle school or high school. It is clear that many of them learn to express themselves sensually. I haven't met one of them who has lost their innocence and childishness though.
Hey, blame africana for that. I not only knew this correct definition of he word, but I also wrote the correct meaning in my post . If I were a betting man, I'd say that I'm the only non native english speaker in this thread, and thus have better language skills in English
Oh cool, we are not talking about faith No, even in faith there is difference between childhood and the adult concept of faith. As an adult, you grow to learn that faith and doubt go together hand in hand, and you have faith in spite of doubts, which is a stronger notion that simply having faith.
Hey, you must really move to Seattle
Don't tempt me.
<sigh of relief> thank you for not making me explain these things.
quix relying on dictionary-only definition gives us limited dimension on this topic, so I assumed that you and others were being intentionally obtuse about what "sexualize" means or how it applies to children
Don't feel like putting blame anywhere, really. And why are we one-upping each other? africana wants to be the one who makes things "interesting", and now you're the one with better language skills.
My apologies.. when I read that part in your post where you were defining "sexualize", I interpreted it as casually phrasing your own peronal understanding, and not quoting standardized definition. My mistake.
ooh isn't there a seattle congress coming up in sept? I don't know much about it but I'm interested since the lineup looks decent
<sorry for the hijack>
wish i could afford to go but i 'm going to toronto in oct.
Huh? After all the comments on this thread, how could anything in Toronto be better than seeing quixotedlm dance with africana? Witnessing the "sexual tension" in that one would be worth paying for!!! :twisted:
would you like to put money on that? Cos I got some bills pay ahaaha!
LoL.. perhaps i shouls arrange for a refund and a rebooking. CUz yeah, that would be fun.
or maybe africana will only ooze a child-like epehemeral quality ?
actually 2 congresses in seattle very soon.
Separate names with a comma.