Salsa > Dancing? Or Puppetmaster Pulling Strings?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by SalsaTO, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. naturallove

    naturallove New Member


    I just watched the video with Yanek and although he and his partner pull off some very complex-looking moves, his sabor (IMO) is manifested in how he steps. For example, I see a lot of guys (and my instructor gets on them for this) leading a woman through moves and kinda standing still in place. Yanek steps through the moves so fluidly, with such...FLAVA (I know, I know). I would probably feel the beat if the volume was turned off! In some ways, sabor is kinda like just know it when you see it. Yanek has it!
  2. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    No, but in a sense the watcher does have to feel YOUR culture.

    I think sabor is very much in the eye of the beholder. The dancer is speaking a language. If it's a language you understand then you don't get held up in the grammar, and can penetrate easily to the beauty of the expressions contained inside. If it's a language you don't understand, you can only marvel at the sounds and get fleeting glimpses of the meaning. If it's a language where you have been taught the grammar but you have never written poetry in it, then again you might get caught up critiquing the spelling and punctuation rather than getting the full force of the soul within.
  3. saludas

    saludas New Member

    He moves with his BODY, from his core.When movement comes from your whole body, they stop being step patterns. it isn't easy, but it is attainable. And once the body comes into play, the rhythm becomes fluid and changeable.
  4. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

  5. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    oh! NO! I sometimes stand in place.


  6. englezul

    englezul New Member

    Haha. I'm really struggling to shut up, this is too funny.
  7. I just watched this:

    The guy is HOT, HOT, HOT! This couple really dances! He does not constantly interrupt the dance flow to just stand there to spin and spin and spin and spin (...) his dance partner (yawn), what I see on countless videos.

    This guy is an example for a flava overdose, ooh ooh ooh!!! I LOVE his body styling! He can DANCE! YES, YES, YES!
  8. englezul

    englezul New Member

    I can't wait to see this one!

    I think the same way about people crazy about spinning randomly, with the exception that sometimes they spin the girl so they can show her off. I spoke to some followers over time and to them (those who practice their spin technique) it's very flattering when they are recognized as good spinners. I see this in birthday dances alot, when leads who know the true level of skill of that certain woman spin her on purpose just to allow her to demonstrate it. This weekend Ana from Boston was spun 70+ (think it was 74) times without showing a trace of dizziness. That is impressive!
  9. englezul

    englezul New Member

    I finally got home and was able to watch the video.

    Of course they can dance. Oliver and Luda are World Salsa Champions!

    Oliver Pineda has been dancing for 14 years and has been putting imense amounts of time into training his timing, isolations and body movement. He's also an instructor and has several dvds out.

    Here's another video featuring him that I couldn't resist putting up. This happened at this years Canada Salsa Congress. Sabor in ...a different way:
  10. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Really think about what you're asking... are you serious?
  11. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    That's probably because you're not a trained ballroom dancer, or if you are, you haven't been doing it for a long time :wink: ... maybe that sounds condescending... if it does, I'm sorry, it's not meant to! I can refer you to some ballroom video that will absolutely make your jaw drop at its hotness.. :wink:
  12. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    I thoroughly enjoyed their workshop at the LA congress this year as well. They are excellent on1 and on2 dancers, and I loved the styling he threw in for the guys (many, of course, seemed to think it was too much, but that's because they weren't comfortable with their bodies most likely) .. maybe I'll post the video of the routine they taught. I am not 100% sure, but I'm almost certain that he is ballroom trained as well, just by looking at his legs and posture. She may be as well, but it doesn't show nearly as much, if she is. They have tons of sabor, and are excellent dancers.
  13. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

    This is exactly what I mean by a guy who dances through the movement rather than stopping to spin a woman or lead her through a turn pattern!
  14. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

    Glad I could oblige....but the point was, until science advances to the point where we have a precise formula for determining sabor, instinct is what we've got:raisebro:
  15. Dancelf

    Dancelf Member

    Of course I'm serious. I don't know what the word means, and if you read the descriptions here, you will have noticed a decidedly unhelpful lack of consistency. So I'm groping for clarifications, and trying to keep things broad enough that I don't get blinded by an unspoken assumption.

    So far, sabor appears to mean all the stuff that you like, that cannot be described in some other way (technique, choreography, musicality, partnership, connection, showmanship, balance, blah blah blah), except that when people describe dancing that they claim has sabor, they draw upon the vocabulary of all of these terms. Not too helpful.

    But if it were true that sabor exists in other dances (that is to say, if sabor is a latin expression for a universal phenomenon), then I could try sifting with clips I'm familiar with, to see if I can find a pattern to identify which dancers will be recognized as having sabor, and which will not. But if sabor is purely a latin thing, then I won't waste everybody's time.
  16. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member


    Literal translation--- " Flavor "
  17. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member


    Okay, I looked at a couple-- its the same old thing !! Do ANY of them know the meaning of " change of pace " ?-- there is little or no expression to any thing they dance . Like someone said ( from n.y. ? ) they have seen better club dancers-- right on !-- I hope I never develop my students to the point where they seem to just go thru the motions . Its all so predictable, and the essence of all good free form , should be , surprise .
  18. Houdinni

    Houdinni New Member

    Wich basically means that like in food, most everyone has it.

    Just in some cases it's good, in others bad, and in most is unballanced, lacking salt or other spices to bring out the best of what's there...
  19. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member


    You got it ma man !!
  20. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    Not to say anything against them, but since when being a champion makes one a great Salsa dancer?

    My experience is opposite: most times, performers and champions cannot dance very well socially.

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