Salsa > Difference in types of salsa?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by ronalds, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Well, Im not surprised that the music choices for your experience in class ,were as described.It points to a lack of knowledge, about the inadequacy of the teacher .

    Its a well know fact that, there are many "teachers?" who wouldnt even know a clave for e.g. if it bit them in the A..

    Appropriate music for ANY class , is how classes need to be planned. I spend at least 1 hour before any class ,selecting music, and I play at least 7/8 songs during my sessions. I also change the selections, week to week .

    Not only is it important class wise, but the exposure to different styles of music for beginners,is necessary prior to their ventures into the club world.
    So.... dont judge all teachers from your experiences, there are some damn good knowledgeable ones out there.
  2. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    Considering the quality of dancing where I am (which is extremely popular for salsa) I doubt these quality teachers exist. Overnight-I'm-a-teacher syndrome is rampant. Some of them have been teaching more than a decade.

    Anyway, I still believe salsa is primarily a solo dance, kind of like club music. You can just join in on the orgy without having to know anything about the music. Just watch what everyone else is doing and imitate because that's the way social dances are learned. But unfortunately in salsa, that just won't work since everyone is doing what they were taught, not what they hear.

    Just play the damn music and let the people groove to it on their own.
  3. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    You should have realised by now that, the majority of salsa " teachers? " have litle or no formal training in " dance". This is a large part of the reason why dance standards are so poor in many instances and locales.

    The free form/solo posit ,is not without merit.. but.. this IS a partnership dance by design .Shines have been introduced to allow for more freedom of expression ( if one wishes ) .

    Just ask the ladies ,if they prefer to dance solo ALL nite.. I can give you their answer now . :eek:
  4. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    here are 5 songs that have strong montuneando running thru the song. All piano dominant

    Se prende el rumbon.. Jimmy Galante
    La Pagaras ............... " " " "
    Tumba la rumba........ Jesue Perez
    Vicente Y bernabe...... Conjunto sabrosura
  5. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I would second the "still believe" but not the "is a". Don´t let us get dogmatic. In Cuba Salsa is a solo dance (by the way it is hard to find someone that danced to salsa music at all), whereas in dance schools over here it rather is a partner dance. It´s totally up to you if you want to dance alone, with a girl, or simply hear music. The music moves us.

    Of course it depends on what we regard as salsa, but salsa is a square dance by design. The partner aspect came up late in the salsa history: the danzón.
  6. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Forgot to leave a vid of my favorite solo dancer from Cuba (now Italiy), Maykel Fonts:

  7. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    You will have us going back to the drum,:rolleyes: if this keeps on !.

    Of course its how things were, but, the topic is what is currently being done
    opendoor likes this.
  8. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    My issues with LSKO are; 1- I actually agree with with a lot of what he is saying about dance and music and movement in general, but, 2- he goes too far when dictating that a certain body part is somehow intrinsically connected to a particular beat, 3- he goes too far when blurring the lines between why women vs men get excited, and how they react (because there is obviously more to it than just physical responsiveness), 4- he goes too far when implying that an entire culture's feeling of a dance is not correct because 'he' doesn't see or feel it, 5- he goes too far suggesting that something isn't dance or isn't interpretive because he didn't like it, laughed at it, or turned it off, 6- he goes too far when insisting that if everyone doesn't hear what he hears and move what he moves... a heel - Now, and a rib-cage - on that beat... then they are just wrong, and 7- he doesn't realize that just because a dance incorporates movements that may be done alone, that said dance could still be a partnership dance.

    On another note, I must agree with TT re musicians and dancers. Musicians typically make my worst students. This is not a bad thing (we have discussed it in various threads over the forum ad nausuem). It is simply that they are trained to read, hear, and feel music differently from dancers. I have known some who never got any better, and others who became quite good dancers. *returning to the back row to sloutch down and just be quiet*
  9. Imbrace

    Imbrace Member

    Too negative and (more importantly) too general! You're saying "WCS isn't sexy", but she's moving her mid and upper body to the melody. Isn't that the response you're looking for?
    Is she not doing it at the right time or enough?

    Do you mean just to demo for them so they'll have a picture of what they should be aiming at or something else (probably boring)?

    I'm no that advance dancer but had so many new friends, enjoys partying and dancing, dated girls (my ex is salsera), had strong motivation to move and become healthier, enjoyed music more ... etc .. all from dancing. Now I'm taking you're theory into consideration, but perhaps if I had gone to you at first, you'd have chased me away.

    I was unlucky starting with a teacher who wasn't so good in terms of teaching and body movements, but lucky he made the class so much fun that I continued till I formed my own opinions. Have you ever taught dancing?

    In my experience, only a single teacher played such music in the class. How about some examples of this kind of music?

    I like this point and hope there is something that I can see beside the theory. There is a single teacher that told me to sway during the intro in a close hold.

    Maybe the origin, but it evolved in the same originating culture with the evolution of its music. And again, where is the example of how salsa dancing should evolve in response to the new more melodic salsa songs.
  10. Imbrace

    Imbrace Member

    I did not know that :)

    I imagine, if it would go back solo, it would socially shrink too massively (if wouldn't disappear) to give any of us the interest to discuss how to move the best to its music ;)
    opendoor likes this.
  11. Imbrace

    Imbrace Member

    Wait :) How do those musicians who became good dancers move? Like LKSO was saying?
  12. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    It's not just that you move the mid-upper body; it's how you move it that should reflect the music. There are many ways to move the hips.

    No, not a demo. Play the music and show them the kinesthetic vocabulary that goes with the music. Provide alternative vocabulary to musical elements. It should look like the music. More importantly, it should make visual and audio sense so that it just seems right to move that way to the music. Like how waltz looks like waltz music, and reggaeton looks like reggaeton music. E.g. you can identify waltz and reggaeton without ever hearing the music, just watching the movements.
    Also, some students may be more audio-kinesthetically aware so they may have vocabulary that they feel is right so get their input.

    Then luckily, I'm not a dance teacher. ;)
  13. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    Oh... so the reason for the animosity toward me is because you're a dance teacher and you're doing things I argue against. ;)

    I don't know if you've seen Dancing With The Stars or So You Think You Can Dance? and other such shows but the quality of dancing is pretty bad. I can't watch it because it's so ugly - my ears hear one thing, their bodies do something else. No real dancer would ever audition on these shows. Thus, the result is that what makes it on TV is of very poor quality. Add to the fact that European culture makes a very clear distinction between dance and music: both are almost divorced from each other. (At one point decades ago, dance and music were divorced entirely.) Thus, these shows focus on fancy moves that have little to do with the music. (Does this remind you of tango competitions? Where's the "feeling"?) This teaches that dance is about movement with only a cursory acknowledgement to the music. Hence the reason why so many people look like they are deaf.

    Everything that I said earlier is what I believe and have observed. There are indeed right and wrong ways to move, just like you would never waltz to salsa or WCS to reggaeton. Would you tango to salsa? This is an easy example but if you can understand why you wouldn't, then you'll understand why I am so specific to the response of the music down to a body part.

    There are indeed masculine and feminine movements which are biologically ingrained. This can be observed in many other animals, not just humans. Charles Darwin noted that dance is part of courtship rituals. And in some cultures, they are very explicit in saying that men who dance well have many children. And if you read some of the findings in the psychology of dance, it confirms these things.

    Women prefer men who dance well and find them more attractive. And this may explain why "advanced" salsa classes that focus on turn patterns are popular: Men think doing cool moves makes them a better dancer. The more turn patterns a man knows, the better dancer he is. The better the dancer, the more sexual partners he potentially has. And since doing cool turn patterns gets attention much more than actually dancing to the music, this behavior is reinforced. If women respond to it (and they do), then it's further reinforced. You'll notice that there is no negative feedback mechanism that stops this behavior, at least not until he reaches the highest levels where the best women dancers actually expect real dancing and don't enjoy being turned around and around for 4 straight minutes.

    But back to the fact that women find men who dance well more attractive (and are more likely to want to have his babies) this means that if a man wants to reproduce, he should do his best to attract and impress women. This means actually dancing well and doing all he can to improve his dance, his movements and his response to music. Women know when movement doesn't correspond to music so it's important to finely tune these movements to the music. This means that certain body parts must represent the specific aspects of the music, the reason why I was so specific down to the body part. Good dancing not only conveys good physique, it also conveys good health and genes, and even social standing, dominance, and intelligence. Aren't these are traits women want their babies to have? And to the men, if you really understand what I'm saying, then you'll see that I'm trying to help you have children.

    And now that I read what I just wrote, I'm not helping myself out by sharing my knowledge. :D
  14. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    Here's a (not so subjective) question:Who's the better dancer?

    It's obvious, isn't it?
    opendoor likes this.
  15. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    If the music that is played in this video is considered salsa, then the man is dancing salsa.

    Just watching him move, it's a pretty simple dance. The vocabulary is limited but it matches the music quite well. It's also something that can be danced for hours, unlike the high-energy spinning and turn pattern dance that is popular.

    (Since I can't understand Spanish, what are the replies in the comments of the video saying? Why all the negative votes on the video? He's a very good dancer so I suspect lots of malicious envy going on.)
  16. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    double post
  17. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Yep, hes pretty decent. But.. that just a shine position vid, a simple one ,but shine it is...
    No negatives from me..

    Now, having said that, when I play this for class etc, its in partnership mode.
    This song by the way, is off their very first album ( theyre PR band )
  18. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    First, let's go on the record by saying, "There's no animosity coming from here; just disagreement. My entire prior training and long-standing teaching program is based on the 'kinesiology' of dance. And, having said these things, I agree with everything in that last post; much of which is different from some of things you have said before. :confused: ;)
  19. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Kinestetics and Kinesiology are totally different types of animals.
    Angel HI likes this.
  20. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    I have noticed rather harsh replies on your end so that suggests you have an emotional investment to show my opinions are somehow wrong. My opinion has not changed at all so I didn't say anything different than I was before. I was repeating most of the things I mentioned earlier, worded and constructed differently, but the ideas were the same. If you can somehow show that my ideas are wrong, then I'd be very open to new ones.

Share This Page