Dancers Anonymous > "Disrespectful" touches?

Discussion in 'Dancers Anonymous' started by Pacion, May 10, 2004.

  1. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    I don't agree. There's no single reaction that is suitable to handle all kind of guys. Some guys will respect a no. Other's would respect no less than a shovel over the forehead. That doesn't mean every guy should be hit with a shovel, just to make sure.

    I was talking in general on a public forum. I've never attacked you personally, I just disagree. Whether you care about my opinions or not, are up to you.
  2. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    Some do, many thankfully don't. But unfortunately many of those who do overreact tend to encourage others to overreact too. :(

    On the other hand, there are also those who are afraid to speak up. And that can be just as much a problem, because it's difficult to tell whether or not you've stepped over the line if noone says anything. :(

    The bottom line is, a guy is supposed to be very sensitive and understanding and pick up all the small signals. If not, you risk ending up with a broken wrist :lol:

    Or we can be on the safe side, always be a gentleman. But that is not so much fun. :lol:

    What I'm trying to say, women, are this. Don't be afraid to react, but don't overreact. Accept the fact that men are not perfect, and sometimes do step wrong. But for those guys that keep stepping wrong, after being told off... Knock yourself out. Break those wrists if you like :D With my complements. :twisted:
  3. Bob

    Bob New Member

    Flat Shoes, I believe you are correct.

    Using rudeness to prevent rudeness is like going to war in the name of peace.

    I have no intention of offending anyone anywhere. However, it does happen. If someone overreacts and embarrasses me when they could have just quietly said "It bothers me when you do that, please refrain", I will be very offended.

    I won't return the rudeness though. I will think very, very bad things of that person and walk away. As quickly as that a friendship or potential friendship can be damaged or destroyed.

    And losing friends (or potential friends) is always tragic.
  4. Genesius Redux

    Genesius Redux New Member

    Woo hoo! Do you like having your earlobes nibbled when you're brought into a cuddle? I can nibble quite respectfully.... :wink: :lol:
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    No comment!
  6. Bob

    Bob New Member

    You know, I am looking all over the net... but nobody teaches that step. I looked under "earlobe styling" but to no avail.

  7. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    That's because it's listed under "nibbler styling!" :lol:

    The one who's earlobes are being nibbled isn't, after all, the one who's doing the styling... :wink:
  8. Bob

    Bob New Member

    hmm, yeah that does make sense!

  9. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    actually, it isn't. now before you start tuning up, i agree that if you want to win someone over to your way of thinking & have the time & patience to endure insult & injury, then repaying rudeness with kindness & understanding is the way to go. but it's not always our job to change someone else's way of thinking. and in the short run, someone may be suffering needlessly. in these cases, a show of power or confrontation is often the most effective way of limiting bad behavior.

    being on the receiving end of an emotional outburst is no fun. and embarrassment, by definition, is a feeling that no one enjoys. it sucks. but we all have the choice as to whether to feel embarrassed about any situation.

    one of the typical pranks we played during college was to swipe somebody's clothes & keys while they were in the shower. i'll never forget how one guy calmly wrapped himself up in a shower curtain like a toga, went to the front desk and had someone let him into his room (coed dorm). he wasn't embarrassed at all - and he got his revenge by dissembling the perpetrator's bed and reassembling it - in the women's restroom. i think he was from the detroit area too (I went to U-M in ann arbor).

    i'm not suggesting that this is the same as stepping an emotional land mine of some sort & being the target of displaced anger. but i do suggest that when it's possible, instead of responding to that kind of emotional outburst with emotions of one's own, a more productive choice would be to try and comment in a non-judgmental way that it's obvious that they feel very strongly about that's happened. that tends to deflate the existing tension. and on the flip side, the worst thing to say would be "don't you think you're overreacting?" - almost guaranteed to provoke a defensive response. (along with other typical phrases like "what's your problem?") . i use aikido principles in my lead, think of this as verbal/emotional aikido. doesn't always work though; some folks are emotional porcupines and they don't even know they have quills.

    i like to look at it like dancing with a partner with lousy frame, spaghetti arms, vulcan death grip on your upper arm with her left hand & her left armpit on your right wrist - and sings along, loudly, off-key! you use the tools & skills you have to improve the experience for both of you as best you can until your 3 minutes are up. you smile, say 'thank you', walk (or run) away and if need be, you can smile & say 'no thank you ' should that person ask you to dance again if you don't think you can deal with it.

    go blue!
    LS&A '83
  10. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    There's always one Peruvian guy who starts kissing my neck when we dance. We are friends, but I think he tends go a little overboard. When I say "Hey, cut that out!", he sez "What, don't you like it?" "OF COURSE I LIKE IT, but you shouldn't do it, 'cause I'm not going to go home with you- my SO wouldn't like that very much!!!!"
  11. Bob

    Bob New Member

    I can be the butt of a joke as well as anyone, and that doesn't embarass me (so long as the joke is not mean spirited).

    However, I treat everyone with dignity and respect and I expect the same. An unwarranted over reaction is just as bad as an inappropriate touch. There is really no place for either in polite society.

    (Go Blue!)
  12. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    true. but since emotional land mines do exist, it doesn't hurt to study the concepts of social/emotional triage to stop the initial bleeding (which may be your own)...

    i hear malik hairston wants to "carmelo-ize" oregon. good luck (and good riddance if he plans to go "one & done"...)! go blue!
  13. Sarah

    Sarah New Member

    Flat Shoes, you are reading things into my posts which just aren't there. Please show me where I said there was a one-size-fits-all solution to this kind of problem. I don't believe that. In fact I believe that I have stated that I have wristlocks, and that I don't often need them. IOW, I usually find less drastic solutions to problems like this.

    It is my opinion however, that if Pacion provided a straighforward and unambiguous no, and if her problem guy ignored it, then protecting his feelings is no longer any responsibility of her's.
    Your initial sentence
    IME women tend through their socialization to err on the side of being too careful of others feelings and compassionate to the point where they themslves are damaged. I think that Pacion may have done so in this case and lost her best chance to halt her problem's behavior without causing anyone embarrassment.
    We need to talk about these things in order to reassure ourselves that being upset instead of flattered by an unwanted touch is normal and sane, and that its OK to do something about it. This is important, and I see your comment quoted above in response to my post as an unhelpful and somewhat arrogant strike against this idea.

    Sarah. Feminist, 'cause its better for eveyone.
  14. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Boy would you guys get a kick out of this country! Some people go up and goose each other , as a joke! (Usually guys do this to guys.) Lots of sexual harrassment, too("seku-hara" in Japanese!). Guys don't dare try this with me as I'm taller than most guys and they know I could probably kick the $4I+ out of them if they did!
  15. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    Hmmm... I have friends (girls) how have a hard time telling a guy to get lost... they accept the guys to come and pick them up, go out to have a coffee with them... and don't know how to tell them "#$@% off!!! I don't like you, I'm not interested" in such a way as to stop them! Sometimes they ask me to intervene and 'save them'! Why? It's soooooooooo easy...
    Just tell them you're not interested, in a nice way... if they don't get it then you can tell them to get lost in a not-so-nice way...
    Guys don't have a problem refusing... why should we?
    The above happens in the local salsa scene... I am tired of people around me who can't just take care of themselves! It's darn boring! And in a way I agree with Sarah! Just state what you want... try not to offend... if not possible, then offend!
    I have to accepts in my classes this guy who is bothering girls, more or less... he has this 'slimy' touch... I loathe it! I can barely dance with him! But I need good leaders, and he's ok... this doesn't mean I have to put up with his s$%t! He's so close of getting thrown out! I mean, he's been warned! If he doesn't stop, I'll tell him to stop coming! Period!
  16. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    There is no way you can now in advance whether or not a guy will repsect a no. In order to be 'sure' that her arse will never be touched again, which was your requirement for handling the situation satisfactory, she will have to resort to a one-size-fits-all solution. You didn't say it, but it's the logical consequence of what you said.

    In my oppinion, she handled it perfectly. She said 'NO!'. Most guys will respect it, some won't. For those that don't respect it, stronger actions need to be taken. But that's impossible to know in advance. (Unless the guy has a reputation/history that says otherwise.)

    100% agreed!

    Yep. That's my opinion. I felt that you were pushing her to react more harshly than needed.

    Yes many do. Women, in general, I don't think so.

    You are free to talk and to forward your opinions. And I am free to forward mine. Please don't feel that because my opinion differs from yours, that I don't want you to give yours, or that I don't respect you for having a different oppinion that I do.

    Actually, I'm quite thankfull for your opinion, as it gave me a chance to say my opinion about women who push each other into overreacting to mens behaviour. Just as we both feel that women need to speak up for themselves, I feel that there's a lot of overeacting going on too.

    If you felt I was being arrogant and/or disrespect, then I'm sorry. that was not my intention. :sad: If you felt provoked ... cool! :twisted:
  17. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    What happened to wrist-breaking? I want more violence!!! :lol:
  18. Bob

    Bob New Member

  19. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Why, Bob! Uma would reach for a sword!!!!!!!!
  20. Bob

    Bob New Member

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