Tango Argentino > Do you like Piazzola?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by wadpro, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    I have listened to tango music for 2 years, I know almost of all composers and orchestras and I also have DJing experience. But I cant understand do people really like Piazzola? Because for me its some kind of torture to listen Piazzola's music. I think its not real tango music and this is why its very hard to dance with Piazzola's music. In my opinion, Piazzola produced his music for people just to listen, not to dance. So Piazzola's music is very harmfull for tango dance and I hope his style wont spread.

    As you know, when Carlos Gardel became famous, people forgot to dance for a while. Because Gardel's new vocal and lyrical style changed many things and people started to listen Gardel's pieces just to listen, not to dance. I mean with Gardel, tango music and lyrics became more important than dance. So Piazzola is very similar to Gardel and these two musician's style is killing tango dance.

    I think the grand masters of tango music are Canaro, Di sarli, D'Arienzo, Biaggi, Pugliese, Fresedo, Donato, Calo, Troilo and other golden age musicians. Who the hell is Piazzola?
     
  2. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    After 4-5 years of dancing, you will get workshops "Interpreting Piazzolla" so you will be able to dance then to Piazzola and other modern tangos :D
     
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I like Piazzolla, but not for dancing too; Libertango is too fast, Oblivion and Milonga del Angel are slow so okay. I dont think there's anything harmful in his music its just too comp,icated to do anything other than choeraography. I believe he wrote Vuelvo Al Sur though.
     
  4. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    Do you think this music and this dance is tango?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNdezMXlZgM

    Look at Chicho's orange jacket, weird hair style and the sunglasses on his head :) Watch their dance please. Do you see anything about the real tango? I cant see a good posture, I cant see nice clothes and I cant hear tango rhythm. Can you?
     
  5. jfm

    jfm Active Member

    Am I being thick here, or do I remember listening to a radio3 programme about Piazzola where they quoted him saying that he was writing music for listening NOT for dancing?

    whilst one can dance to new music that has been written in an exploratory way (ie Piazzola felt he was being ultra modern and evolving tango music) often the conventions that are used when writing music for dancing, are over turned this is the whole point and why it was exciting music. There's no reason not to try to dance to it but it's difficult and there are musical reasons why it is difficult. I really don't understand why Wadpro seems to think that it is harmful to be adventurous?
     
  6. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    Its harmfull because if this kind of music and dance spread and become popular, the real tango music and dance can be forgotten. Remember, rock-n-roll had killed tango in 1960's...
     
  7. jfm

    jfm Active Member

    Carlos Gardel died 40 odd years ago and Piazzolla died in 1992. If Piazzolla was going to destroy tango in the way "rock and roll" allegedly did, it would have happened years ago. I mean come on.
     
  8. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Blimey, is this a game to translate every thread into one big "What Is Real Tango" thread?
     
  9. spectator

    spectator Member

    I've decided from now on to post this every time this theme comes up:
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]T[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    See, when in doubt ask Jesus!

    [/FONT]
     
  10. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    It's a conspiracy.
     
  11. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    C'mon DB, Piazzolla never wrote for dancers. He's a great composer and even the Argentine people eventually recognised this. the roots of his music are tango and he took it to a higher level.

    Wadpro doesnt like his music. wahts wrong with that?
     
  12. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Well, without getting into the fascinating debate of whether it is tango or not, I love Piazzola's music. A lot of it clearly is more for listening than dancing, but a lot of it can be (and is) danced to. The tempo changes in some of his songs, may discourage some people from dancing to it, similar to some of Pugliese's music. Clearly, it's not for beginners, but a lot of people do like it.

    I've edited a version of Bandoneon, both to shorten it, and to remove some of the rather lengthy intro, that many consider to be un-danceable. I usually get some positive feedback when I play it.
     
  13. spectator

    spectator Member

    do you like apples?
    do you like pears?
    Do you like...
    a push down the stairs?
     
  14. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I would listen him to him on a train,
    nor with a fox, nor on a plane
    i do not like Piazzolla
    Sam-I-am
     
  15. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: Do you like Piazzolla?

    Hi wadpro, tango is more than what you have got to know by now. So it is no question of taste, of like or dislike:

    -Piazzolla learned from tango bandoneonists,
    -he played in ordinary tango orchestras for many years,
    -he also wrote easy-listening tango pieces,
    -his advanced compositions quote tango instruments, melodies, topics,
    -he lived within the tango community,
    -he influenced tango musicians.

    So, ergo, Piazzolla is tango, even his non-tango works belong to tango.
     
  16. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    well your fifth statement is only partly true; he was ostracised musically for a while, and spent some time developing his music in Paris.
     
  17. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    You know, not everyone likes free jazz, fusion, etc. Some people "get it", others don't. It's the same with Piazzolla. I've found most people that don't like Piazzolla are not fans of a wide variety of music such as classical, free jazz, atonal, etc. They like tango for its softness and don't really like the graspness of Piazzolla's usage of sound plasticity.

    Piazzolla did not compose to dancers, so I don't understand why you are even connecting both. Sure, people dance to it, but people dance to everything, so it's almost irrelevant, with the exception that it's tango music.

    Piazzolla will never endanger dancers, don't worry. There's enough music to dance for a long time and more music for dancers is being made today.

    Piazzolla is one of the greatest tango composers of all time, whether you like it not. In order to understand Piazzolla you need to look at the context and listen to late Pugliese for example.
     
  18. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Nothing's wrong with that.

    What's wrong is saying that a certain style of music will kill the One True Tango, the Tango to Rule Them all and in BsAs bind th-.... err, I may need to stop watching LOTR...
     
  19. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    And i think this is the key comparison - if i look at his career, and who he collaborated with, and how he talked about tango it seems to me that he was quite deliberately and obviously trying to do for tango what bebop and jazz did for swing - evolve the basic musical form away from the dancehall and into concert halls. I really don't understand the animosity - i don't think you hear swing dancers fight if brubeck's take 5 is a great jazz album or not. Or austrian folk dancers argue if chopin's waltzes are great pieces of classical music.
    I think we are essential folk dancers, and piazzolas tango has about the same relationship to the dance as tchaikowskies mazurkas have with the the mazurkas the folk dancers dance to.

    Gssh
     
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I love Libertango, and that's because it was the first song i heard at a milonga that I had heard before; Grace Jones' I've seen that Face Before
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeWZE8h376M
    and here's Astor Piazzolla
    [yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RUAPf_ccobc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RUAPf_ccobc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]
     

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