Swing Discussion Boards > Does Anyone Do Hustle Anymore?

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by jennyisdancing, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. GJB

    GJB Well-Known Member

    I like both WCS and Hustle and would rather dance a mix of both than do just one or the other all evening. I get bored dancing the same dance all night.
  2. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Thanks for the input so far - I would expect that the folks on this forum know a lot of dances, hustle being one. But I guess what I was trying ask is, what is your opinion of hustle's appeal to a new/non dancer, or its growth potential compared to other dances, especially salsa or WCS?
  3. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    I don't see hardly anyone under 50 doing it in my area. There seem to be some Boomers that know it, but us Gen X and Yers seem to avoid hustle. Who knows though, those huge 70s style sunglasses seem to be all the rage with everyone about 20. So maybe they will love hustle as well :)

    Regarding outfits. Comparing TV show or even comp outfits to what the normal dancer wears doesn't work. If we went to a ballroom dance, most ladies don't spend the evening in their showcase Latin outfit and the guys don't spend the evening dancing in unbuttoned shirts with shaved chests do they?
  4. noobster

    noobster Member

    I think it just doesn't go as well with most modern pop music as WCS does. And not too many dance beginners/non-dancers are still listening to disco.

    Some of it is self-perpetuating as well, in that the bigger a dance scene the more its appeal to newbies. The hustle scenes I've seen are pretty small, and if I were a beginner looking to learn something I'd probably lean toward a bigger scene (like salsa or WCS).
  5. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    We dance hustle variations to everything in the clubs...rap, hip hop, house...eminem, wyclef, t pain, you name it. Ya just gotta forget about the box and use what you know to just *dance*. Forget what it's called and what the "steps" are...go slow, go fast, do 3-count, do 4-count for the faster stuff, whatever works. So totally works for the young crowd. And no need to look all "hustle-y". It's all dancing, all good...
  6. noobster

    noobster Member

    I agree that you *can* dance hustle to lots of current club music... actually that was one of my initial motivations for wanting to learn it. But then when I learned WCS, I found it to be even more flexible and suitable to a wider range of tempos than hustle.

    (Btw what's a 'box'? You mean the slot, or do you just mean to 'think out of the box' more generally?)
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    yes, i agree. we mix the two, sometimes blend in a bit of bolero -- lol -- it all just melds together. i think WCS is far more flexible, but a more challenging dance for a newbie because it's so interpretive.

    yes, as in think out of the box... going beyond labels of what kind of dance or step is being done and just feel and connect and dance synergistically. that's i think the beauty of what learning both of these two dances can give as far as what one can do on the club floor. at social, too... if the music is good enuf.:cool::rolleyes:
  8. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    I would say the appeal of Hustle depends on how it is introduced to the new/non-dancer. I think to dance it well, and in an enjoyable way, a certain amount of technique is required for both lead/follow. Otherwise, I think the dance can turn into something similar to riding one of those NASA centrifuges. And I agree finding the best Hustle music can be a challenge, but if found, can also enhance the experience. I think there are pockets of Hustle dancers in U.S. For sure in NY/NJ area. There are Hustle dancers of all ages in that area and it seems very popular. Probably more spotty in other areas. I know there are Hustle comps around U.S.; I went to one last year in NJ. As far as comparing with Salsa or WCS, I think those dances are definitely more in vogue at moment and maybe always will be. But I really like Hustle and think most others would too if presented in good way.
  9. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    LOL That's exactly how I feel when dancing hustle with most people. Just the other day I told a friend that I felt like I was in a washing machine. :p

    So many of the hustle moves are circular and that, plus the spins, can make it all seem very tedious to me. I had the lucky experience of dancing with a pro at a comp last weekend and it was so delightful; he really knew how to mix up the moves a lot more.

    There is a big debate in the hustle community about how hustle should evolve. Essentially whether strict-syllable (3-count NY Style) hustle is marketable or appealing or whether it needs to adapt to fit current tastes and club music. I live in a hustle 'pocket' where there is a strong core group of supporters, and all the hustle dancing follows the syllabus, so there's resistance to that idea. But I would have to agree with adapting it.
  10. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    I think some people use too much counter-balance when doing hustle. This is felt as excessive counter-balance weight in hands/arms while dancing. (This can happen in V. Waltz too.) Ideally, there would be a light connection during dance, although I think some counter-balance is needed for faster Hustle music. (I prefer slower Hustle music.)

    Yes, if you have a good lead in Hustle, it can make a big difference. And just like WCS, the follow needs to stay in slot, and lead can help follow stay in slot. But that is why I stated earlier that I think some technique for both lead/follow can enhance experience.

    When Hustle first appeared in 70s (in NY I believe) it was much different than current form. It went through some major evolution then and finally settled on 3-count syncopated version. You're lucky to be living in a 'Hustle pocket' in that you could be dancing with/learning from some experienced dancers. The predominant Hustle form in your area is I think &123 counting. Since that is the way it originally evolved, I doubt that anyone in your area would want to change from that count and style. Also, I think most Hustle comps use &123 count. At our studio (Columbus, OH), we also dance a 12&3 syncopated version and a 4-count non-syncopated version. As far as Hustle evolving further, I'm not sure about this. I know there are some other forms in Europe (Disco Fox), but I personally don't like the look as much as here in U.S.
  11. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    The "3 " count version didnt appear until the early 80s.. it was , of course, preceeded by Latin Hustle ( I attended a teachers national convention in 1976 in ( Boca raton ?) )... the "street " hustle as it became known, much later, is a bastardised version of triple time swing .

    It doesnt have the elegance of "latin" which is structurally and rhythmically different . Based loosely on a WCS format ( different timing ) and danced on a horizontal plane ,rather than slot .
  12. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Yes, in our area it's strictly &123 NY-style syllabus - which is exactly what I don't like about it. I also am aware that the current form is not how hustle started. I think the older versions are easier to learn, more funky and more fun to do. I told that opinion to one dancing acquaintance of mine, and he said "but that's lower level dancing". So there's sort of a snob appeal of current hustle style, because of the technical mastery needed to dance &123 count, especially at higher speeds. That said, I'm sure there were people back in the day doing the old style, who were able to work in lots of complicated moves if that's what they wanted.
  13. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    He said ?... he obviously does not understand the complexities of Latin Hustle .

    Having taught both for more yrs than you care to know, from a Prof. viewpoint, the rhythm changes in "latin " are much more complex than 3 count ( it has single, double and triple in its makeup ) .
  14. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Exactly. I love hustle. Absolutely love it. And I find no end to the current music which works well for it.

    I think a lot of the dislike for it comes from limited repertoire (which means you spend 3.5 minutes of variations on spins--after a while, boring) and poor technique (arm yanking). With a good leader, though, so many incredible possibilities open up, and I find it to be one of the most gentle leads out there--it's like there's absolutely no force involved at all.

    I have no real opinion between &123 or 12&3, which is what I first learned and dance most frequently. The first 30 seconds are interesting, while I'm resetting my brain, but after that it's all good. Nor do I have issues with dancing a 3-count pattern to 4-count music; no different, IMO, than dancing 6-count WCS patterns to 4-beat music. I'd love to learn Latin hustle, but haven't run across anyone around me who knows it.
  15. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Peaches - agree on the issues of limited repertoire and poor technique. They abound in hustle, it seems. And yet that also could be said for most other dances - but a limited repertoire seems way more tolerable in other dances since the other dances don't make you feel like you're in a washing machine.

    As for the 3-count timing issue being similar to the WCS timing concept, yes and no. First, not all basic WCS patterns are 6-count; the whip, for example, is 8-count. Second, WCS patterns, in essence, can be thought of in two-beat increments and altered/shortened/lengthened that way i.e. you can extend a 6-count pattern to 8, 10 or whatever counts - or cut a pattern short and redirect into some other pattern. And in dancing WCS you can think of feeling the beat two counts at a time, which makes good sense with four-count music. To my knowledge, a WCS pattern is always even-numbered, so it will start on count 1 or 3.

    But with a three-count dance you are constantly cutting up the music measures at different points that don't fit, i.e. your basic step could start on count 1, 2, 3 or 4 and will change throughout the song. Yes, I know you can also alter hustle patterns for breaks and stuff, but generally I find the dance goes with the music less than WCS does. Musical interpretation is taught in WCS by the intermediate level, but in hustle I only see the very advanced dancers being able to work well with the music.
  16. Phil Owl

    Phil Owl Well-Known Member


    You took the words right out of my beak wooh! Thank you!

    As much as I've tried, I just have never been able to get the hang of WCS, at best I can only fake it with a forgiving partner. Now Hustle or ECS, whole different story! :mrgreen::rocker::cheers:
  17. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    i've been part of the (hustle crowd for 9 years) NY Philly NJ , like many here i also do wc& other dances, my opinion, with a few others who think the same is( hustle is dead) in the sense that , all the so called big wigs are doing the same stuff from say 20 or more years ago, they turned it into a box system dance, there are no young people in the dance, shoot i could go on & on, but let me say this in the hands of some talented young folk this could explode.
  18. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Agreed - Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do/how to get this out to the younger crowd? Does the dance itself need to be changed? Taught or marketed differently? Etc.
  19. GJB

    GJB Well-Known Member

    I hope the dance and the music doesn't have to change to grow.

    I remember David and Tracey Appel dancing at Hustle USA one year. To me it looked like their routine had a WCS flavor. I wasn't crazy about it. It was a high caliber of dancing that they put on the floor. I just prefer Hustle the "old way."

    Maybe the dance just needs more exposure. Maybe it needs to be one of many dances that people dance on a given night. I would rather see dance events that have more of a mix of the various street dances (Hustle, WCS, Salsa and maybe even Argentine Tango) than go to an event that is all Hustle, or all WCS, or all Salsa all night. I'd rather have a variety of music and dancing.
  20. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    i submit that the music being played is probably inappropriate - music for hustle should have a constant steady (in terms of accent) beat vs. an obvious downbeat or back beat.

    shaping is part of the dance - would you prefer to dance riverdance style? <grin>

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