Tango Argentino > Videos > Doesn´t she look gorgeous?

Discussion in 'Videos' started by opendoor, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I guess that explains why ballet dancers aren't often described as gorgeous.

  2. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Actually, they are... you're just not hanging around with the right crowd.

  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yeah... I have some serious booty, combined with a lot of inward curve in the small of my back, that makes it look like my butt is out even when it isn't. (It also makes it hard to find pants that fit, since there's always about a 6" gap between the waistband in the back and my body)

    But if you watch the video ;), you'll see that it isn't just her fabulously toned glutes that make her rear stick out; it's also her posture. (yes, I admit that even when she is upright, her butt sticks out because her tone in that area is, well, pretty amazing)

    It's a style that quite a few people use, and I've posted negatively in response to even a Geraldine Rojas video on the topic. If it works for them, fine... they're athletes. It's just not something I'd want to see the average middle aged social dancer trying to emulate as the "correct" posture. I hear too many ladies already complaining about backaches after a night of tango, and in many cases, ir could be improved by not letting the lower back get compressed through arching in that region.
  4. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    You mean you think that social dancing might be kept alive
    by unsocial dancing?

    If that's the best you can do, perhaps yes!

    Well you made a universal recommendation so that's everyone.

    As for dancing fundamentals, Zoopsia has commented already
    with whom I totally agree.

    Yes, you avoided mentioning tango though that was the implication.
    I'd recommend avoiding any of their "dance".
  5. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

  6. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Actually, there is some logic to this, although a demo at a milonga isn't the place where the results would work. Flashy dancing styles that people might see on TV or at a stage show attract people to the dance. Yeah, they have a misguided notion of what they will be doing or learning (or even capable of) but it is good marketing to certain types of audiences. As we say in theater "It gets butts in the seats" even if it is a little bit fraudulent in advertising. They figure out (hopefully) that the social tango they are going to learn in class isn't quite like what they see on tv, but they often stick with it anyway. More people doing tango is what keeps it alive as a social dance.

    Theoretically though, people at a milonga already know the difference which means they won't necessarily be inspired to start tango by what they are seeing (they're already learning tango if they are at a milonga) but on the other hand, they also hopefully can tell the difference between a performance and what they can reasonably do on the social dance floor.

    If people who are actually taking lessons are still confused, then their instructors share at least some of the blame.

    Of course, people who are just inconsiderate jerks don't need to watch a demo to feel they are free to ignore social custms, so the demo doesn't really affect them either. When anyone does a demo of actual social dancing, they are the first people to poo-poo the demonstration saying "they weren't very good".
  7. sambanada

    sambanada Active Member

    love it
  8. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    You mean you think that social dancing might be kept alive by unsocial dancing?

    Just when we were in agreement you went and spoiled it all!

    In fact I appreciate your argument, and I've heard it used elsewhere
    but it's a perverse way to attract people to tango and my experience
    is that it attracts people with the "wrong" attitude. Unless of course
    you're a teacher and aiming to "get butts on seats" as you put it,
    meaning students in classes repeatedly paying to learn stuff
    not suitable for a milonga.
    It's short term commercialism in the pursuit of reward for the teacher.

    You can wish, theory is often not the same as practice in dance.

    The strange thing is that long term commercialism would best be served
    by promoting social dancing by teaching co-operative social dancing
    rather than some sort of flashy style. Large and active social communities
    are what keep social dancing going and the prices of entry to milongas
    reasonable. A group of expansive and space encroaching dancers
    means sparsely occupied floors and either poor returns for milonga
    organisers or expensive prices for the dancers.

    We only disagree on the extent of the blame. Newcomers cannot
    be blamed so the instructors by the their advertising, their dancing
    and their teaching take most of the blame. And of course the milonga
    organisers who invite them to "perform" and the organisers who
    schedule them to teach at "Festivals".

    My experience of other dance indicates another phenomenon, that
    of potentially really capable social dancers being put off social tango
    by the image of flashy performance because that is all they've seen.

    Yes, and there are too many inconsiderates because the image projected
    of tango attracts such self-centered people while at the same time
    repulsing those who actually see it for the anti-social dance it is.

    In this visual age, it has to be admitted that tango as a dance of the senses
    does not have much of an external visual appeal except for the practitioners
    who can see into it using their own experience and understanding.
  9. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Please allow a personal question: How do you get along with your rigorous mindset in your own community? How can you stick to your ideas surrounded by hybrid forms, commerce, dilution or perversion? Do you make compromises there and play the role of the purist here, do you live all day long with a heavy heart?

  10. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    both, most people around here are better at dancing other dance forms.

    I'm not bothered by commerce or dilution ( what ever that means in this context) and I'm all for perversion advocating the Homeric approach to organic tango.
  11. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Jekyll and Hyde

    :idea: how many profiles have you got ?
  12. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    If people would just judge this for what it is, a performance, I find it skillfully and artfully done. Much more so than many performances I've seen. And yes, she is gorgeous. I suppose he is, also.

    They are the only ones on the floor, so everyone knows it is a performance. The dancers know it, so they are performing. The audience knows it, and they expect to be entertained, as they were judging from the applause. Does it represent or encourage social tango? No at all, but it wasn't supposed to.

    I didn't notice a hyper-extended back. If she has one, I don't know if they are suggesting everyone dance as such.
  13. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    you talking to me?
  14. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Yes! I addressed JohnEm and you were answering.... :D
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    aha. its not easy to tell if a question is a general one or for someone specific...

    in answer to the Jekyll and Hyde question, I have 7 sub-personalities and they each get darker in turn..like Russian Doll Aliens with malevolence....
  16. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Is this directed at someone specific or a general question for the board?
  17. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    You mean you think that social dancing might be kept alive by unsocial dancing?

    That's a strange comment - it isn't about me but
    about the video you posted and the attached comment.
    As the OP perhaps you should stick to the discussion.

    People around me, and yourself for that matter, have many different ideas
    to mine and it's not for me to stop them, only for me to have my own
    opinion and dance consistently with it.

    Yes I compromise - by dancing with partners who like dancing with me
    while others all around are dancing whatever they think is tango.

    However in Buenos Aires my dance is similar and compatible with those
    dancing at the same milongas, the porteños who dance socially.
    My choice of partner here is much wider than at home and it's people
    and teachers abroad who make this dance unnecessarily difficult.
  18. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Generally speaking, it's helpful to quote the person in your post, if the question is addressed specifically to them. Then the rest of us don't get confused about who the question is addressed to.

    Just a thought.
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I have no problem with the choreography or the execution of it. As you say, it is a performance.

    However, the question posed was "Isn't she gorgeous?". I don't think the way she holds her back is gorgeous. I also don't think it is a method that should be employed by the average person who doesn't have the muscle strength this woman most likely does, and I'm sorry if my digression from the literal question bothered you. (ok, I'm not really sorry :p)

    As a personal pet peeve, I also get tired of "gorgeous" in tango defined by long slender legs and stilettos, which is why I asked if she would be considered gorgeous with a different body type and outfit. It seemed pretty clear from some of the responses that it is her body as much as her dancing that people are looking at in this particular video. (as one poster put it: "there is dancing?") I imagine the crowd at the milonga was at least somewhat swayed by those factors too, so the relative applause level doesn't mean much. I've seen people cheer exuberantly for mediocre dancing with a lot of skin and flash, and seen people disparage excellent social dancers because they weren't flashy and didn't have the show dancer "look".

    There are some amazing tangueras in the world who are not built like this and who will never be considered as good as the ones who have this lady's body. Yes, she is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. And if her dancing is what people find attractive, she will still be considered gorgeous when she has gained her post-menopausal 30 lbs, and is 60 years old wearing a knee length skirt and 2" heels.
  20. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    You are correct.

    It happens often.

    It was me who said their dancing was skillful and artistic. About the audience, I said they were entertained.

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