Salsa > double and triple turns!?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by jenibelle, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    I think this might be a silly question but... :?
    Can anyone describe to me exactly how they do double and triple turns? (LOL! I'm sorry, this is something that should be shown, not explained but I'm dying for a written detailed explanation..ie. when do you hook your foot behind/in front, what do you do with your arms....)

    thanks all!
    Jeni
     
  2. salsaForfun

    salsaForfun New Member

    Check out the article: Spins… Edie, How Do You Spin so Long, and So Fast?

    (http://www.dancefreak.com/stories/spins.htm)
    Good points there.

    Edies' video and Seaon Bristol's two spin videos would give you the pointers on how to spin. Seaon's video are a set of exercises that help you to spin correctly. Edie'S video gives you a check list on what to consider when spining.
     
  3. Danish Guy

    Danish Guy New Member

    check out this dance forum thread to.

    http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=314&highlight=spins

    I’m still working on my spins, and it’s getting better.

    I did get a brush up on the lead aspect, and tried it out last night at the club.
    The proper warning and start, giving the follower the optimal foot placements is really important.
    Girls with a little insecure spin, was suddenly spinning perfectly. 8) 8) 8)
     
  4. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Are we speaking of multiple solo turns or while the leaders makes the follower spin multiple times?

    If solo what I like to do is start positioning my body for the spins on way to hitting the 6 with my right leg behind my body (second part of the basic male). My prep starts there. My body takes the position of a runner (without the crouch) with the left arm back and the right forward. By the time I hit the tumbao (8 beat) my body is already facing to the right causing the right foot and leg to point to the right (left side of body facing partner). The left arm/shoulders/torso have began to pull upper body into the spin, head is already facing over right shoulder looking at where I want to go and the left foot is in the air being pulled by the upper body. By the time the 2 beat hits my back is facing my partner. Left foot has come down to the floor in synch with the 2 causing it to move my body slightly forward (optional) on the pivoting foot, my eyes and face are still turning looking for my partner and my upper body following the head being driven by left arm/shoulders/torso. As my body keeps turning to face my partner on the tumbao (4th beat) finally coming down next to the right leg feet together, the right foot then makes its way to the next 6th beat possibly hooking behind the left leg. During all this time my arms are bent at a 90-degree angle, up and to the side of my body. When the sixth beat hits, the next spin will be a faster in place one, since I am only doing a double I being to ready myself for coming out of it with my arms. When the 6th hits I unwind my self with the shoulders, the head looking over my right in search of a 360 turn looking for my partner. I start bringing my hands down prepping for the basic step forward with my arms and eventually upper body. By the time the 8 beat comes back around I've finished the spin and my body is in position for hit the 2 with my left leg. If I want to do more than 2 spins the unwind movement is a lot stronger, my hands might or might not stay up depending on what look I'm going for (style or no style). My head stays spotting for my partner and shoulders/left arm/torso driving the spins.

    I choose to do an "oval" slower 1st turn because it makes the overall spins look very smooth and it gives my body lots of time to where I don't have to hurry trying to spin on the 2 while my body is still facing my partner. In my opinion that technique for spins looks too strong and too hurried, hence, killing the smoothness of the overall spins. All the turns after the first will be in place.

    The above description is as opposed to hitting the 2 while still facing your partner and at the same time trying to spin.

    If the partner is turning you, bend your knees, both feet on the ground on the ball of the feet, spot, keep back straight, whip your shoulders around as fast as you can, keep your hand in front of your face and bent at a 90 degree angle, don't depend on the guy for balance.

    Boy, I hope that helped any because that is the first time I ever attempt to write how I spin.

    Take note that the direction and body movements/placement are for the gentlemen, for the ladies, switch the foot work around with the right foot taking over the motions of the males left and so on. Right meaning left... Vice versa in simple words.
     
  5. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Wow, I really liked Edie's site; it was interesting and rather inspiring! What I don't understand is her suggestion about "dragging the feet." I may be mistaken but I was always told to "step" when doing salsa. Otherwise everything she said made a lot of sense.

    Thanks !

    :D Jeni
     
  6. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Hey Danish Guy:
    Thanks for the link, i didn't realize there was such a wealth of information on the forum....LOL....I could stay up all night reading it.

    Thanks again and take care,
    Jeni
     
  7. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Dear Borikensalsero:
    Wow! I can't believe you wrote all that out -- i am really impressed to say the least! :shock:
    To be honest it took me a while to work it all out but i think i understand it and it makes sense! I'm just a bit confused about the hook turns, because when you do them you pick up momentum to do another turn, but your legs end up crossed and it is difficult to get them around for that other turn (did that make sense?)

    And am I correct in understanding that the shoulders go first, as they are the driving force, and the head goes last (for spotting.)??

    I know this is a really hard thing to explain... :? ...
    Thanks!
    Jeni

    PS. SalsaforFun: I think I sent you a private message by accident as well, so if you received 2 messages almost the same, sorry! (i'm still figuring this thing out)
     
  8. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator


    Hello jenibelle...
    you made me blush...

    Let me start by clarifying the confusion over Edie's drag your feet statement. When spot turning (the guy is spinning the lady in place) there is no time for the lady to pick her feet off the ground. What she must do is allow the feet to drag on the same place on the floor while she spins. Picking up the feet from the ground prevents maximum speed of the spins.

    Now on to the question about the hook and the head..
    Since the first spin is an ovalish spin, the head actually starts turning a bit before the shoulders, the reason is that you are looking to where your next spot is going to be so the eyes start seeking, hence, causing the head to turn until you have finished the full spin. Once the first spin is over, because of their speed, the rest of the spot turns will have the body go first then the head. From the second spin on the head keeps a spot on the partner until it is forced to look for the next spot by the motion of the body at which time you should be looking for your partner again. Hope I was clear, had a rough day at work today and I'm not thinking straight...

    Yes, the hook can but not necessarily lead to an increase of momentum. The actual momentum isn't achieved by the hook-step but by the upper body. The hook step is simply aiding the spin, and readying the body for the following spins. The speed you seek on solo spins is directly related to the body parts involved (upper body and legs). Want to go fastest, whip the shoulders and on that initial hook step, use the aid of your quads for the extra thrust. Although your quads are involved in the spin, their involvement for speed should not be at a greater degree than that of the upper body. The legs main purpose is to maintain balance. It is a common mistaken belief that the legs are driving the spin, although it can be done, it is easier to spin the body where there is less concentrated weight, that being at the top. As well as most people really think that because their legs are used for spinning the upper body hasn’t began doing its thing. Which leads to Edie saying whip your shoulders around and drag the feet. When spinning or dancing we need to aid the legs the most we can. Using the upper body to spin allows the feet to become much lighter.

    In all, just because we are hooking it doesn’t mean that we go legs first into a spin. The control of the spin comes from the upper body. You can hook all you want, you can even hook one leg like a screw around the other, but the speed of the spin is going to be generated from the upper body. If you know you are only doing a double turn then know how much time you have and adjust the speed of the upper body accordingly. Simply hook then smoothly unwind using the upper body, all while the legs keep balance and follow the upper body to a final destination.

    Always dance under control. If you feel that the hook is making you gain too much momentum then it means that the body isn’t as controlled as it can be. A loss of body control leads to sloppy dancing.

    P.S. From what I know and have noticed, this technique of solo multiple spins isn't very well known. I actually like when I am going to spin a girl and I see her doing this technique, it makes her look smooth as heck, and makes me smile like a goof ball that I'm not the only one doing it. I stress solo becuse in today's dancing, the male is usually taught to signal a beat or 1/2 beat before the spin begins, hence not giving the girl her time to set up the spin from her back stepping foot. Ultimately why, in my opinion, the first spin looks so rushed and the body all bent in weird positions, and killing a nice smooth son montuno... :shock:
     
  9. msc

    msc New Member

    I once met a lady who spun four times off an American spin type lead, all within a 5-6-7-8. When I asked her about it afterwards, she claimed that she kinda lost track during the middle of the spins and couldn't remember how many times she had turned.
     
  10. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    hehe... that will be happening to you too...

    I have a "funny" story that drove me crazy at one point. I was dancing at my old studio during a social. I went for a couple spins and ended up doing over 8 spins, only because the floor was newly waxed and I had new leather bottom shoes. Everyone clapped and I smiled as I was dizzy and had never done that before. Last time I did it too. Well, my dance instructor being the alpha dog he thinks he is, took it upon himself to spin for well over a minute then finished the song and looked at me and winked. :x :x :x :x As if it he wanted to let me know who the big dawg was. Well, everyone went up to me and appologized for his behavior... Ahhhhhhhhh Can we spell EGO???
     
  11. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Man, this is the side of dancing that just really upsets me and, unfortunately, your story is rather typical of a certain class of instructors rather than being the exception. :evil: :cry:

    One professional I know described this as dealing with "egos with legs." The only real question I have for these people is why?
     
  12. msc

    msc New Member

    Spinning for a minute is just plain weird. Alpha dorky, to be honest.
     
  13. jenibelle

    jenibelle New Member

    Ooooohhhhh, NOW i get the dragging the foot thing! I think i might have been doing it all along....hang on lemme try (*does double spin on basement floor*) Yep. i think i'm dragging my foot.

    Yours is the best explanation I've ever seen! I think it is a good thing that the women are using solo technique to do spins with a partner, as in we don't want the woman hanging on to the guys arm or relying totally on him, she should be doing it pretty much by herself.

    As for your instructor, well all he has accomplished is that he has made himself look silly and you look even better!

    Thanks and happy dancing! :p

    Jeni
     
  14. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    :lol: :lol: :lol: LMAO...
    That is the funniest description of egotistical dancers I've heard...
     
  15. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Undoubtlyso had he been spinning in place. However, he was moving around the lady while she shook her booty off, and never lost connection to her. On top of that he would speed up and slow down as the music went from a montuno to a descarga. It really was a great show of his spinning techinque Never-the-less, it was, as SD mentions, Ego with legs and as you have pointed out dorky considering the situation.
     
  16. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Some follows like spins and turns and complicated moves. While it was a case of "ego on legs" here, I've had times when I've been asked to do more of something (if we know each other), or just from the follows reaction I can tell she wants more...
     

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