Ballroom Dance > Double reverse spin, reverse pivots to telespin - What timing works best?

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by hjr28, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. hjr28

    hjr28 Member


    In Waltz the timing for the following figures alone would/could be normally:

    Double Reverse Spin with overspin (1 reverse pivot) = 12&3&

    Telespin = 123&1&

    I could join these two figures by eliminating the overspin of the dble reverse spin but a more interesting way would be to add a second reverse pivot to end facing forwards to then be able to enter the telespin.

    If I do this there would appear to be two main choices for timing:

    - Either speed up the dble reverse spin, so as to do the "overspin", ie. first reverse pivot on 3 and then use & for the second reverse pivot so as to enter the first step of the telespin with left foot on 1.

    Hence the total timing becomes: 1&2(&)3&123&1&

    Where I have bracketed the extra step of the lady in the dble reverse spin.

    - The other choice is to enter the Telespin on beat 2 rather than the more normal 1. The justification for this being that the whole movement taken together means the necessity to start the telespin on beat 1 might not exist.

    The total timing would then be 12&3& for the dble reverse spin plus overspin (first pivot) and then the second pivot on 1 and enter the telespin on 2. Here I would chose to move the syncopation of the telespin one step earlier, hence 23&1&2. This is therefore LF forward on 2, right foot around on 3 (lady does heel turn), step back for man & lady out of heel turn on &, same foot position on 1, final two pivots on "&" and 2.

    In both cases I am entering a throwaway oversway after this sequence so the need to exit on beat 1 or 3, etc, doesn't exist.

    Any thoughts? :)
  2. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member


    DRS: 12&3
    overspin: &
    pivot: a
    telespin as usual

    DRS: 1&2&
    overspin: 3
    pivot: &
    telespin as usual
  3. dancepro

    dancepro Member

    I would agree with Joe on this one. I do however think the first one is the better one as the lady does need time to do her heel turn.
    (my partner used to do this step and he would do a full Overturn (one full turn) finishing in a spiral position. He would dance that as an & and I would do two steps as &, a).

    I am a little puzzled about your (hjr28's) timing in the Telespin.

    We all know this "accident" of the Telespin was done by Phyllis Ha...(please help with the spelling and the name of her partner:confused:, tangotime). This is how my teacher explained the Telespin.
    Step 1+2 of Reverse Turn in Foxtrot, step two overturned by 1/8 (timing being 1,2), then step 3 of Reverse Turn (trying to save the accident) in LOD (in line of the instep of the right foot (under left shoulder)timing being 3), weight change toward the left foot for the man and a step forward for the lady in Samefoot Lunge position (lady's left foot stepping past the man's left foot (timing being &), then Reverse Pivot with weight change full to the left foot, timing being 1).
    I see you having an extra &. Are you doing an extra Pivot or where do you fit that extra & in? You might be using that extra & for one more Pivot to line yourself up for the Throwaway Oversway. I was just wondering.:rolleyes:

    Well, that was my 2 cents worth and my thoughts.

    All the best

  4. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Haylor.. her partner was Alex Millar. ( they won the " Star " champ. in 1925/6? )... For those that see the name " Star " as a precede to many comps, its really used out of context. It was an appendage attributed to the then "Star " newspaper in London which no longer exists .

    Funny you should bring up her name. I brought her over for ISTD pro. exams in 1964. Jenkins and Silvers both took their Assoc ( plus I had several other not so notables ) A very formidable lady !!
  5. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    I only offered the alternate timing because the full pivot (on RF for gent) is very fast (read: difficult) if done only on the "a."
  6. cornutt

    cornutt Well-Known Member

    OK, I'll be the kid that sticks his hand up and asks the dumb question that gives away the fact that he didn't do his homework: what the heck is a telespin?
  7. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    An open Telemark (123) ending with a lady's spin on left foot (45).

    Sometimes (mistakenly) used as the term for the spin taken by a lady from a same foot lunge position.

    Not to be confused with a TelePIVOT (Telemark to Reverse Pivot combination).

  8. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Sort of. It's an open telemark for the gent (more or less), but it certainly isn't for the lady. It's more like a reverse turn into same foot lunge position into the spin.
  9. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    WADR I disagree.

    Remember that the TeleSpin derives its name from the TELEmark and Reverse SPIN.

    The correct way is BOTH Man and Lady do the Telemark to END in PP (aka the Open Tele).

    Then the man stays on his left foot as the lady performs a reverse spin action (lady's left).

    What you describe (Rev Turn to SFL) is a variation of the TeleSpin--which I did allude to, and which my partner affectionately refers to as the Reverse Lounge (yes, Lounge not Lunge :) ).

  10. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    Could someone recommend some good written or video resources to learn this (Telespin) and other open figures in standard?
  11. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Marcus and Karen Hilton
  12. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    That is correct .
  13. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    It would be helpful to give some specific resources, for example, a book that explains Telespin in detail, or some video(s) that includes that and other open figures.


  14. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Go to ISTD, IDTA or the UKA websites for info.
  15. hereKittyKitty

    hereKittyKitty Administrator Staff Member

    Both Dance Shopper and Dancesport UK sell Geoffrey Hearn's advanced standard figures presented by Mirko and Allesia... expensive but its a great video with detailed instruction.

  16. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    Thanks for the resource information. :)
  17. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Which clearly shows Alessia in a SFL position after taking a very small step out of the heel turn... What they do isn't exactly like a reverse turn, but it's much closer to a reverse turn than an open telemark.
  18. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    For those who may be interested, I did a little bit of looking around and I did find a detailed written description of Waltz Telespin in Popular Variations book by Alex Moore (variation #49).

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