General Dance Discussion > Feel of a lead vs variety. Sensitive follows vs those who need more.

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Mysticle31, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: set of of techniques..

    Think it makes a big difference whether you are a competitive dancer who has to accomplish every single rule right down to the last detail for years, or being a performance or social dancer exploring the limits of that special dance artistically.
     
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Or, perhaps it is something even more basic--like the fact that those are precise, technical definitions used within the ballroom dancing community, where the non-webster's definition is clearly understood and there is no debate...except by those who truly don't understand what they (or others) are talking about.
     
  3. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    It make some difference, but again, if there is no common ground, there is no teaching, there is no partnership. That is fine for the nightclub, but I really don't think it works for partner dance.
     
  4. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Your first statement promotes rather than contradicts my opinion...
    that different people interpret the same situation/statement/etc.
    in very different ways, usually colored by their own backgrounds,
    experiences, and expectations. Some will understand my claims
    and agree with them. Some will understand my claims but
    disagree with them. And some will not understand my claims
    (and hence not agree or disagree in any meaningful way). All
    are legitimate positions.

    Well, again, the basis of competition depends on whether
    you believe there is some uniform or unique concept of
    "good technique and good artistry." I certainly know of
    many competitors who seek out particular comps or
    judges so they get favorable treatment. Do you really
    believe there's no politics in dancing? Especially when
    financial incentives are involved?
     
  5. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    There may have been a time when the dances were more
    "distinct" by design, but the differences get blurred over
    time, partially because the powers-that-be run out of things
    to teach and start "borrowing" between dances, or make
    up (overly artificial/superficial) distinctions that may
    enhance or detract. You must hear of this dance "evolution"
    thing and notice how a given dance or set of dances looks/
    feels quite different from decades ago.

    And who says the leader and follower necessarily have to do
    "whatever they like." They could be doing the techniques and
    movements they learned in one camp that differs from
    some other camp where both claim to be the authority on the
    same subjects/dances. You must have watched "Strictly
    Ballroom" before.
     
  6. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    You want to have your cake and eat it, too, it seems. Yes, there can be fragmentation across different styles of the same dance. American Waltz and International Waltz are very different. But within that fragment, there is a standard. At some level, there is a community that agrees "this is how this dance is done". And I would distinguish dancers blending different dances together from the dances being indistinct. When I watch top competitors, I don't need the music to be able to tell what dance is being danced.
     
  7. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    And with respect to "Strictly Ballroom", come on, now. Open level dancers do not have the restrictions portrayed in the movie.
     
  8. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Toothlesstiger's point was that if multiple people are not interpreting YOUR STATEMENTS as you intend them to be read, the issue is not "different people see different things differently" but that you're not communicating in an effective manner. In other words, it's not them, it's you.

    If you do not have a commonly-agreed-upon vocabulary with commonly-accepted definitions, you cannot have a judged sport. You can't even have a conversation with any meaning. Even art (real art, anyway) has agreed-upon definitions. Ballet is not generally a judged competition (yes, yes, they have competitions, but it's not the point) but it has an agreed-upon language.
     
  9. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Yes, back when Chris (Partner Dancer's doppelganger) was posting.

    It's like Partner Dancer thinks he is speaking English, when he's really speaking French.
     
  10. JudeMorrigan

    JudeMorrigan Well-Known Member

    The problem is that until one has a solid base of fundamentals to work with, "exploring the limits of that special dance artistically" can easily be less e.e. cummings and more texting tween. Those fundamentals take rather a lot of time and effort to develop. Personally, I'd be very leary of someone who tried to brush them off.
     
  11. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Again, this is your interpretation. I understand very well
    whatever language I'm using, but you either don't understand
    it or do understand it but insist that only your language is
    legitimate.
     
  12. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    It wasn't clear whether the issue was anything to do
    with syllabus violations or just some general notion of
    not dancing the ways of the establishment.
     
  13. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Your interpretation of my intention is already flawed. Since
    I'm of the "live and let live" mindset, I don't really expect
    everyone (or really, anyone) to understand or agree with
    my stance. So, there's no notion of nor basis for "them"
    or "you" being at fault.
     
  14. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I should have said, "It's like Partner Dancer thinks he is speaking English, when he's really speaking French but everyone else is speaking English."
     
  15. toothlesstiger

    toothlesstiger Well-Known Member

    How difficult is it to interpret "No new steps"?
     
  16. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I assumed your intention was to be clearly understood. Apparently, I was wrong.

    For communication to have meaning, it's irrelevant whether YOU understand it when the people you're addressing can't understand you. As Joe put it, as if you are speaking French while everyone else is speaking English *and* doesn't understand French. Now, if you only speak French and are incapable of communicating in English, that's one thing.
     
  17. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Communication is a two-way street. Both parties have to
    send and receive well, adapting to each other's needs and
    abilities.

    You must not like social dancing.
     
  18. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    It's clear that you are "speaking French," because DOI is not referring to dancing, social or otherwise--she's referring to either your inability to admit or your lack of comprehension that there are words and phrases that have accepted meanings within the ballroom lexicon.
     
  19. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Could you recommend such an online lexicon? And what do you think of such a lexicon in general? Was it possible anyway to include ballroom as well as bar, club, and street dancing? Do social, competitive, educational, or performance dance share the same vocabulary? Is there an overlap between american and english ballroom, between ballroom and caribbean or south american dances. Share swing, folk dances, tango, and salsa the same language?

    My focus f.i. is tango (argentine), salsa (cuban), and swing (lindy).
     
  20. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    I'm not aware of such online. I wasn't really referring to a lexicon as a literal book, but more of a lingua franca. I'm sure there is some overlap between dance styles/genres, but some of them have their own "language" that doesn't fit others.
     

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