Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Twilight_Elena, Jul 6, 2005.
And africana, I've been meaning to ask: If salsero = player, then salsera=?
A serious question. They must either be players themselves or they like the attention they get or they like the dance so much they are willing to deal with cringing a lot. Probably all three types are represented?
my statistical sample may not be sufficiently large as to set a reasonably high confidence level but i have yet to see what i'd describe as a truly healthy & happy relationship involving one or two people that are heavily into the salsa scene & lifestyle - and remain in it.
tsb - define "happy and healthy" relationship...
IMO, one man's food is another man's poison...
Is the pun in the title of this thread intentional?
if someone is eating poison - i'll call it eating poison.
now there are some choices that we make that i would ascribe to personal preference. but there are other things that i ascribe to world view. some world views are mutually exclusive. my world view is probably contradictory to those of a lot of people in DF. but in this particular case, tacad & i have significant history (we see each other as often as 2-3 times a week & we have dinner together probably twice a month) & i think his & my world views are similar enough that i can speak to his questions & expectations.
tsb, dear, it is not necessary to jump at my throat...
It is not that I wanted to question your friendship with tacad, but sometimes I think it's a little bit too much to assume you know what goes on in a couple.
Yes, I've seen (and had) Salsa relationships gone sour, people hurt etc... But I shall not assume someone is unhappy...
One of the longest lasting relationships in our scene is that of an instructor with one of his students (no, we don't have regulations against it... :lol: :lol: ). He was in another relationship when they began dating, she kept on being his lover for months, then he broke up with his GF and the mistress became "official" GF... Then he cheated on her (so they say, but I wasn't in his bed to check it) one time too many, and they broke up, now they are back together and bought a house! I guess their relationship is not "healthy" by some people's standards but they are happy ... and he has changed, you know...
What I am trying to say is that if you have enough maturity it's not necessary for things to be too bad... I am happier dating a dancer than a non-dancer (I tried for a year and a half, and cared deeply about him, and he was supportive of my dancing... but...) and don't really care if I end up hurt or not... I hope I'll be mature enough to deal with it if it happens...
Ever get this reaction...
I've had men compliment me on my legs...they are lean and muscular from dancing several times a week. In explanation, I usually say that I am a dancer. I get "that look." And quickly have to say..."ballroom" and "ballet." Then you get the "oh..." comment. Funny how many assume the worse when I'm simply tying to simplify and streamline a conversation...otherwise, you have to explain all about your ballroom dancing and your ballet training....over and over.
me too. When i say dancer, in the shoe store trying to get arch support for my dance shoes, I have to explain to people I swing dance, partner dancing. I get wierd looks If i dont. "ooooooh i see, your a dancer :wink: "
yeah, right buddy, get a life.
I've seen it.
Most people consider dancing the freestyle thing that anyone can do at clubs. They don't consider it significant enough to call themselves dancers, to buy special shoes/clothes etc. This is why I think we get a reaction when we say that we are dancers. However ballet, modren dance, jazz, partner dancing are all looked on as skills that must be learned and not something that everyone does so this is why I think we get the "oooh..." It makes sense in that context that the right shoes/clothes etc are important.
i have found europeans to be much more aware of the dysfunction in their families as well as the how it affects their current choices. americans tend to be much more in denial about these things - especially in how they form relationships and how it influences their relationship choices.
and they made kelly monaco winner of "dancing with the stars". geez!
I'm not sure what you mean by 'heavily into the salsa scene' but I think I've seen a few happy couples. I've also seen a few lasting couples that are not healthy, but I don't know that kind of background on everyone.
salsera = ANYTHING
You can attribute it to anything: there are more "vigorous young women" than men in salsa, women live longer, ecetera ecetera
But fact is, I find a lot more women who play things straight (i.e. no playing around) in a relationship than I do guys. It much harder to find a "cheatin" salsera.
if she's not single, she's mostly likely monogamous.
So tsb, your stastistics are off, sorry
I find that a lot of salseras enjoy dancing for the excitement, sensualness and/or role-playing involved and MOST times aren't looking to romantically connect with guys they dance with, and certainly not on the dance floor.
For a lot of women dancing is actually a form of self-appreciation, narcicism if you will. Enjoying the body, how the music makes you feel, how it feels to float away with a partner, to feel like a princess for 3 minutes , etc.
If you understand this concept, you will go far, very far
Salseros however...they seem to have a hard time turning that switch off (that sexy !=sex) Hence all the issues with who asks whom
For example one gray-haired elderly (beautiful!) salsera has a hard time getting asked, and is even rejected, because the younger guys will really mostly ask those they find attractive and "amenable"....THIS IS STUPID!
If more guys understood the social dancing salsa doesn't have anything to do with "nabbing" some a$$ the salsa world would be a much happier place
Not to mention the pressure on women to jazz up on the way they dress, to be more tantalizing and revealing, in order to be noticed and get asked more (not to say that women don't also contribute to this pressure)
In some cities/scenes, this problem is not so bad, particularly at socials where most attendees are avid and accomplished dancers, so the women might dress down a bit. but still...
Anyway point is, salseras are much more likely to be upfront as long as you DON't wierd them out in the dance scene,
Lastnight is a prime example, I had to keep changing my coordinates in the club just to avoid the ooglers with the creepy stares
Anyway, standup guys are a commodity in the salsa-world i've seen. But honest, smart, loyal, talented beautiful salseras? dime-a-dozen
By the way, what are you doing going to salsa clubs if you feel this way? It's really a waste of your time :roll:
Do you mean this when you say "if you feel this way?"?
I was really trying to figure out why women dance in salsa clubs if so many guys are players? I mean if women don't like players (they say they don't), don't they?) why go? I've really only been to three salsa clubs. Four if you count The Mayan 10 years ago. The female friends I went with to The Mayan kept removing guys hands from their body parts and yet continued to go out and dance. :shock:
If I do have an opinion from this brief experience it would be that salseras like the attention they get or they really like the dance. I can deal with either of these. But mostly I'm just interested in sampling salsa this summer. I had to stop my ballroom lessons temporarily so now seems like a good opportunity. So far it's been a decent experience.
And remember, I'm a guy. So provocative dress has it's appeal. :lol:
Oh, and I like Latin dancing anyway. I'm more natural on cha cha and rhumba then foxtrot (at least when danced properly) or waltz. So salsa would be a natural thing for me to try anyway.
some like the attention.. i know quite a few!
some are so addicted to dancing, they try to ignore the crap and keep going after their fix.
most however, just like to have a good time: a chat, a flirt, a dance, a drink... remember, we're used to guys behaving like this
from the first time we ever went out to a club.
i love latin music and i love to dance to it. truth be told, i didn't know a thing about the scene and the people in it before i started dancing socially, so i had little idea that i'd run into the kind of playerdom that is mentioned here. once i realized it, i was already hooked by the *good* things about salsa in NYC, so i just put the bad stuff into the "con" side of the balance sheet... but at the end of the day, the "pro" side is much, much fuller.
so i keep dancing.
the minute the con's outnumber the pro's, i'll re-evaluate. until then, however, i'm totally entranced.
4 clubs in only LA, Ok that all makes sense.
I had a small section in my last post when I talked about "avid" dancers and the differences in various scenes. Some clubs are more meat-makets than hangouts for these hardcore dancers...you'll learn over time how to pick which clubs to go to and on which nights...but only once you get beyond a certain level and start to desire to dance for the love of the dance itself.
Most serious salseras are very into socials as they tend to filter out more of the sleazy crowd
I was also alluding to differences in city styles - for example the etiquette on a saturday night at an LA club can be drastically different from a sunday night at Jimmy Anton's social in NYC (suffice it to say that there would be hardly any need to slap hands away )
And same thing happens even within cities - there are certain clubs that I have been very reluctant to go to on the "meat-market" nights (mostly fridays and saturdays), but attend those same clubs on another salsa night (usually a weekday)
it's always both (remember the "princess" deal )
But indeed for most (if not all) dancers getting attention is big factor, regardless of gender or type of dance
I guess I come from the school that sees salsa as life-impacting deeply-engrossing activity, so I can never understand those who are in it (male or female) to "play the field" or just see it as a mating excercise
Even if I get tired of the club/social circuit the music still hypes me up
it's also very true what africana says about the socials - the socials in NYC are dancers-only and dance-intensive. that doesn't mean there aren't shenanigans that go on, but remember, these things are going down in the middle of the afternoon, without a lot of liquor (beer's for sale but many don't partake ever when dancing), with a fair amount of lighting, with a lot of adult supervision, and with a fairly casual vibe. i see plenty of provocative clothing and provocative dancing - i enjoy both myself - but without a lot of undercurrent.
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