Discussion in 'Videos' started by sambagirl, Apr 12, 2010.
This was just too funny, and I had to share it:
I did a search for more of them and found another performance by one of those couples, improvised, based on their earlier show:
Thanks -- it's good to see them do a performance that's a little "straighter" (though not much!) as well
LOL. The first part is like watching ballroom peeps do AT...except this has better technique. Awesome.
I happened to see the site last night for the festival in Philadelphia including the Tango cheeseballs.
I wonder why tango is being taken as a joke by dancers in the USA. Do they have nothing else to do but figure out stupid things to do and label it tango?
Their festival is nothing more than a platform for another opportunity to get laughs at what they think is tango and get people to sign up for classes.
Doesnt the real thing draw anyone?
I interpreted the cheeseballs quite differently. To me they are not poking fun at the tango itself, but at tango dances who overly rely on stagey "cheesy" choreography to cover for lack of the "real thing". They are not promoting this sort of tango.. they are mocking it.
That was my interpretation as well. They're poking fun at the overly dramatic stage tango that you don't like Jan.
I am an American. I dance tango. I do not take tango as a joke. I do not figure out stupid things to do and label it as tango.
I think you should apologize, Jan.
I never said that I do not like tango on stage. It has a purpose--to entertain an audience. I attended the opening of milena plebs new show Tramatango and thought it was excellent. I saw Forever Tango six times. I have been to many of the tango houses in BsAs for a dinner/show. They have their place--in the theater. The market for tango has reached $150 million dollars annually, so stage tango is not going to disappear.
What I do not like is stage choreography being taught to social dancers who will never appear on stage and only want to dance simply for the milonga. People dont know a teachers qualifications before signing up for a workshop. They only get hype.
It seems to me that the cheeseballs are poking fun at stage tango while they are teaching almost the same thing themselves. Their nuevo style is too big and dangerous for the social dance floor. I do not see much difference in the stage choreography and the big movements and kicks used in nuevo tango -- both are for pleasing an audience rather than ones partner. They are thinking steps rather than feeling in the moment.
My daughter got her first taste of tango years ago from a famous salsa instructor that used tango in his routines. He once choreographed his version of an A.T. routine for my daughter and her dance group and I swear that it was one and the same as the clip. LOL
Fortunatly, she has since gotten training in authentic Argentine Tango and is now a decent A.T. dancer.
Thanks for the clip sambagirl, it made me laugh.
I'm not sure what you mean... I did a search for Tova and Carlos and these were the 1st two videos I clicked on (I don't know who the other couple in the cheesballs video is)
Neither of these videos seems nuevo to me. In fact, with the exception of a few large back boleos, the moves aren't even "big" in the first video. Nothing in these two videos would be too big for most of the milongas I go to, since there is MUCH more space than at a typical BA milonga. When things ARE crowded, the back boleos are the first thing people leave out, and then they scale back from there based on the needs of the space that night.
Maybe you know something I don't about the other couple, but I'd hardly call Tova and Carlos "overly big nuevo" dancers.
I also looked at the workshop schedule for Tango de los Muertos which is the festival Tova and Carlos organized in Boston. The 2009 schedule of classes include things like:
"Walking in an Embrace"
"Improvisation with Ochos and Linear Turns"
"How to Move in Limited Spaces"
"Tango Milonguero: Dancing like in Buenos Aires" (which had THIS description: "Discovering the steps of the traditional Milongueros in Buenos Aires: rhythmical forms of the Caminar and interesting variations of the Ocho Cortado."
and "Milonga con traspie" (which states clearly in the description: "You don’t need complex steps - the connection to the music is what makes a good Milonga!")
I think this is a sincere and serious post, which deserves a serious reply. There is no doubt that social tango in the US is more influenced by performances, than it is in Buenos Aires, and I don't have a problem with that. My only issue is when it effects the floorcraft and disturbs other dancers. The US isn't Buenos Aires, and likely never will be. I assume that's why you now live in Buenos Aries. You know what you like, and you go for it.
Also, I think performances are fine during a festival, and should be entertaining.
I think you have a point here. Where I differ with you, is that I don't think dancing for steps is always as bad as you appear to. It can be fun (at least for some people), and I like to have fun sometimes. Like I said before, the issue is when it causes floor craft problems. If there's enough space, they are fine. The trick is to find the balance (or maybe experience and wisdom) to know when some moves can be done safely. Maybe someday, I'll get there.
That being said, with the right song and the right partner, I'm very happy to do the walking hug thing (or try to maximize the connection).
The other couple is Andres Amarilla & Meredith Klein.
Ah, ok... they are nuevo right?
Yes, although I suspect they can do other styles too. They teach out of Philly.
I think that some are failing to realize that the clip was simply a parody on "chessy" tango.
It was the salsa teacher that lead my daughter to discover her love of A.T. If it were not for him, she would not have discovered her love for, and the joy she receives in dancing A.T. Even "chessy" tango can by a lot of fun.
To me, it’s sad seeing the form of „parody“ often used as an excuse for the lack of technique, creativity and effort. It goes along the line: “I don’t have the time, skill or motivation to do it proper – OK - let's do a parody”. This shows an ugly disrespect for the crafts and the spectators. In my opinion one can do a decent parody only having mastered the craft to perform it effortless. Than one can go beyond the rules and limitations and start to play with them. A careful developed parody is a wonderful gift to the audience and does not belittle the concerning subject. It's more a homage to it's little odds and weaknesses. A good parody needs equal or more work than the "real" thing.
The fact that dance teachers are featured in this vid was quite a surprise to me. I thought it showed just amateurs goofing around. Of course, it is perfectly alright to goof around for professionals, as well. However, it strikes me as odd that they put it on the Internet, for it might not be the best representation of their skill.
As a potential student I would wonder if the performers have taken the shortcut described above. I would have to decide if this is the type of behaviour I can expected from an experienced, carefully and throughout teaching professional.
IMO, Jan's point might have been overstated, but is partially ok. Further, I agree that the performance is not supposed to be taken seriously; they are mocking the ridiculousness of those who do not take tango seriously.
Having said that, here are my thoughts. I agree that we live in a country that hasn't learned how to not be, at least initially, superficial. We are drawn to flash and BS first, then to the essences later. We are also a people in chronic denial of value starvation. Perhaps, parodies, though fun by nature and entertaining by definition, are not the best things to do at this time. Yet, they are not likely to cease. So, .....
Let's also assume that there are equally as many of us who; are serious about tango, study it diligently, teach it correctly, know and understand the differences between parody and reality, and enjoy both, and need not be chastised by unknowledgable expatriots and/or others of seemingly monovision.
We should not be putting these guys down for their parody b/c we do not know whether they dance/teach the same thing or not. The name alone suggests that the wayoutness is intentional. They could be very good authentic AT dancers/teachers.
Jan's initial post was unfortunate. The followup should have stopped here....
Separate names with a comma.