Tango Argentino > first signal of closed embrace

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by olamalam, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    i don't think they are incompatible, but they are _different_, and switching between them is like e.g. switching between e.g. cross and parallel system. It opens up some options, and closes others.

    None of this matters when the connection is great and the dance is working - but it really matters is when something happens and the dance goes wrong - everybody has an ingrained idea what the "safe and predictable" thing is, and where to go to rescue themselves and their partner. And that is where these differences become noticable and make the dance less enjoyable - things get wobbly, and we are trying to save them, but what we feel is making the situation better is making it worse for out partner.
    sixela likes this.
  2. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

  3. tangomaniac

    tangomaniac Active Member

    What is meant by constant pressure on the back framework? I was taught hold the woman like a precious vase: firmly enough you don't drop it and not so tight you crush it. My embrace is like a seat belt, firmly enough the woman feels my chest but not so tight she feels suffocated.
    jantango likes this.
  4. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    basically instead the follower feeling the leaders chest with their chest the follower is feeling the leaders right arm with their back. often the follower is a little bit offset to the leaders right, and angled off, so she is nestled in the leaders embrace on the right side. a different view on what the leading surface is.
    sixela and vit like this.
  5. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    If the woman works to maintain contact on your chest, the amount of pressure you need on her back is completely zero (I actually like that a lot).

    "Constant pressure on the back" means that she tends to move _outside_ until she is constrained by your arm rather than _inside_ until she is constrained by your chest, so you need some tension in the right arm to ensure the lady engages in compliant motion with you once she reaches your right arm.

    As a leader you can always send your follower into such a position constrained by your right arm (by starting a step and making clear your intent to step with a lot of energy and then holding back). The question is whether the follower then naturally reverts to another "neutral" position closer to you, with chest contact and some pressure that allows you to connect there, or will rather take that as a signal to a (possibly temporary) switch to a different communication framework.

    You can also force a follower connected "outside" back into a chest connection yourself, of course, usually by stepping to the side or back and slightly differently tweak how far the different part of your body move and their direction (and when they do move), so a very dynamic embrace that constantly switches between the two modes of connection is very possible (and when it works and doesn't jar with the music but connects with it, it feels and looks very good).

    I do confess that since I now dance mainly in close embrace with almost no pressure on the follower's back I need even more than one tanda to adjust to some ladies that will move "outside" with a lot of drive (of course I have a right arm to constrain them, but I tend not to brace myself for impact that much, since I'm used to dancing with a chest connection and with a light touch at the back). I need to remember my more centrifugal days of about 10 years ago to adjust...before I adjust, some of these "centrifugal ladies" will actually sometimes take me off balance or even attain escape velocity (usually when doing an extremely dissociated ocho, possibly within a giro).
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    Tango Distance likes this.
  6. tangomaniac

    tangomaniac Active Member

    If nestled was the right word. I find women push hard on their right arm, locking their right shoulder and pushing themselves into my right armpit which is the WORSE place they can be. Their range of motion is restricted so ochos and boleos are really difficult. Not only that, by pushing their right arm, they are pounding on my left arm. To relieve the pressure, I let go of her hand and hold her wrist or I jam her hand downwards.

    It's a myth that everybody is compatible with everybody else.

    It may sound mean, but if I have to choose between the woman's dancing and protecting my shoulder, my shoulder wins every time.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  7. sixela

    sixela Well-Known Member

    "I find women..."

    I'd be cautious about overgeneralising from personal experiences -- for every valid technique you'll always find people who do them badly, and sometimes it's your reaction to what they do that's unfamiliar to them and everything moves into an uncomfortable settled state.

    But yes, everyone is not compatible with everyone else, and that even evolves over time (since I know some ladies that are definitely borderline incompatible with how I dance now but would not have been some years ago...)
  8. ArbeeNYC

    ArbeeNYC Member

    I'd think you'd want to spend more time at practicas, at least a year or two, before attending a festival or a milonga. Then when you've worked out at least some of the basics, attend a milonga and see what happens. Then go back to the practica. Just focus on walking -- in a practice hold for a while -- before doing anything else. Get the rhythms down.
  9. Reuven Thetanguero

    Reuven Thetanguero Active Member

    In general a good advice, but I would recommend not to wait a year or two before attending a Milonga. I would suggest to attend practicas and Milongas concurrently- you can learn a lot observing more experienced dancers and perhaps even do a few tandas yourself. Milongas would also serve as an inspiration to improve your dancing.
  10. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    This. When a beginner I attended a lot of practicas, and I mean attended. I sat, I watched, as the teacher was inviting beginner after beginner and the followers were sitting, not wanting to lose their invitation by the said teacher. After a while I decided that instead of a practica I may as well be an onlooker in a milonga.
  11. JTh

    JTh Member

    Yeah..there are some followers that I just don't gel with..it's very difficult to establish any sort of connection. .. Whereas other followers it happens so easily (it's as if they can read my mind - they are totally in synch). I just go with the flow -most work out fine in connection but some don't no matter how hard I try to establish connection amd synchronicity.
    I focus my efforts on the ones that I do have the connection.. And I can tell for a fact that it's vice versa.

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