Salsa > for the ones who can do a double/triple spin

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by pielcanela, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. azzey

    azzey Member

    Theoretically both leader & follower are supposed to do their own role (just as in other partnerwork situations requiring lead & follow skills) - the guy leading the spins and the follower following the spins. Each provides their own momentum and support/balance, however through interaction some support and/or momentum may be passed to the other partner as required.

    The more advanced dancer always compensates for the less advanced. This may mean that a more advanced leader will apply more force and momentum into his spin lead to help the follower get around as needed. A more advanced follower may compensate for the lesser leaders lack of control and application of force, either slowing it down, speeding it up to keep on time or just maintaining more groundedness to stabilise the leads poor halo technique.

    Following in general naturally requires that you stay in synchronisation with your partners lead. You provide most of the momentum for your turning and he guides you and tops you up with additional momentum as required.

    In spinning this could mean an ideal where you would provide most of the momentum and most of the balance and he supplies a small amount of lead to get you started, guides you through the spin to help you spot/balance and adds a little additional momentum for each turn as necessary (not necessary with really good follower spinners) and signals when you are to slow down and stop.

    "So I keep hearing different things about this. Are you supposed to spin yourself, or are you supposed to let the guy spin you?"

    A lot of people use these vague sentences to describe all that complexity going on under the hood and then people wonder why they're confused!

    When good leading and following come together there is no limit to the number of spins that can be done. Usually I stick to 1 to 4 depending on the girl, the music and situation even though I am capable of much more. For the leader leading below your limit is an important aspect of self-control and more easily guarantees a happy follower.
     
  2. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Think of spinning as any other leadable move in a dance. When you do a cross body lead, for example, does the leader drag you through the slot, or do you move on your own in response to his request for you to move? There is of course physical interaction and some force that comes from him when he begins to lead you through the slot, but you move on your own. Same with spins. Again, he provides an indication of when to start, when to stop, and how fast you should spin. He does this by keeping constant connection with you before, throughout, and after the turn. No magic to it, that's it. You turn.

    With that said, "you turn" does not mean "you decide when to start, stop, and how fast to turn." Don't begin turning before he gives you the lead, don't turn faster/slower than his lead indicates, and don't stop turning before he says stop (unless he's an idiot who turns you more than you can handle).
     
  3. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    For a triple, the leader will usually do an earlier prep (1/2 to 1 count sooner), and will give faster rotation through the hand (well, finger) connection throughout the turns.
     
  4. africana

    africana New Member

    the spins I described myself doing are solo/free spins

    lead spins are not 100% in my control so "results may vary" lol
     
  5. Rumbera

    Rumbera New Member

    I think we are all pretty much on the same page - just have a different way of explaining it.
     
  6. KiwiMambo

    KiwiMambo New Member

    I agree completely with what Josh said.

    I know some people think the follow should just keep her time and the leader is responsible for physically manipulating her. For example, give her mucho oomph so she gets across on the CBL and physically spinning her. You can't argue that is wrong, it's just a different philosophy. This philosophy generally means the leader and follow are heavy dancers.

    My philosophy is the leader should give you a clear indication of what they want and you should follow while having the freedom for some self expression. For spins, that means spinning yourself. It looks sharper because the follow is using the momentum from one spin to go into the other rather than been sluggish and depending on the leader to crank you around again. For other moves it allows the follow some freedom of expression/styling. For exampe, CBL inside turn into a wrap. I am not going to stop you so you are perfectly straight to the track. I give you the signal to stop and you can choose to flow and end into the wrap how you want. Using the momentum of the follow also allows you to effortlessly flow into other moves. For example, handshake position (leaders right hand, follows right hand), CBL double inside turn into hammerlock, release hammerlock to pick her up for a 360. Easy to do if the follow helps by spinning herself with your clear indication/lead. Very difficult to do if the leader has to physically spin you first. It just doesn't flow as nice. Many hands make light work - if both of you do your part, you can acheive more than if one person is doing a lot of the work. You dance together as a couple rather than one person completely manipulating you. People that dance like this are generally lighter dancers.
     
  7. genEus

    genEus New Member

    Have never been able to lead this if the girl is not absolutely solid in her spins. I love it when you lead that and let go of the girl and she keeps spinning with her hand in the hammerlock position like another 5 times from the initial momentum. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Good, that probably means you don't try it really frequently... to do a regular double on the spot is one thing, but for a lady to travel doing 2.5 reverse turns is something that takes a while to do with speed and control (and add a 360 on top of that, even tougher). Point being, it shouldn't be attempted unless the girl can crank out 3 or 4 regular on-the-spot turns with ease, which is something that not a lot of girls can do in many scenes. Even then, it takes a good leader to lead it correctly (which I'm sure you can handle of course).

    On that note, I was dancing with someone the other night who, given a free spin into a traveling (CBL) reverse turn, will routinely do 2.5 turns instead of 1.5. So it's almost always a huge rush to do a 360 out of it, because it feels so good, and the momentum practically necessitates it, since it eases the momentum down from the turn more gradually and naturally than just stopping. Of course, she does not always do 2.5, and sometimes will do 1.5. I found it a nice little challenging game to determine as soon as possible if she was going to do 1.5 or 2.5-- if she was only doing 1.5 and I predicted 2.5, I would have waited to long and the momentum was not quite there to do a 360 out of it. On the other hand, if she was doing 2.5 and I predicted 1.5, then I would have rushed in too soon, and a collision would have happened... so I had to be extremely perceptive at her initial rotational speed so I could determine when to come in... it was so much fun that it alone made me smile during the dance. :-D
     
  9. KiwiMambo

    KiwiMambo New Member

    She needs to be able to do a CBL double inside turn in place. If I haven't danced with them, first I test how their 360's are. In another move I will do CBL double inside turn into a hammerlock. If they can execute those and their arms are pretty relaxed, I have no trouble pulling the double inside turn into hammerlock 360. The trick is leading her spins tight in place. Neither of you should be travelling forward. I pick her up on the 360 on one leg with my left hand behind my back just to look cool :). I had no trouble pulling this off at the NYC congress with the better dancers.
     
  10. KiwiMambo

    KiwiMambo New Member

    Sounds like you had fun. The double free spin into 360 is harder than the double hammerlock into 360. With the hammerlock version you control the timing of the double so she will be in the correct position for the pick up on 5 (On2 timing). With a double free spin she has to have perfect timing for the double so she is in the correct position for the pick up. If she has perfect timing on her spins then the key is not to look for when to pick her up otherwise you end up to early or late or crash into her. Just go with the timing and feel and she will magically be there for the pickup.
     
  11. genEus

    genEus New Member

    Oh boy. Took me a while to stop crashing with this one girl when I was just starting out and then my instructor (male), who, whenever you lead a free spin does like 8 of them and I could never tell if he was almost done spinning or had another few in him. As I got better, with the girl I figured out the timing and we never collide anymore. With the instructor, I don't lead free spins or if I do, usually very lightly so that he does only one or two. :rolleyes:
     
  12. ITALO2275

    ITALO2275 New Member

    Spin Help

    Hi

    I am 31 year old Is it to late to learn how to spin well?

    If not
    Where do I start?
    Please help It woul improve my salsa so much.

    thanks
     
  13. pielcanela

    pielcanela New Member

    well Eddie "the salsa freak", winner of one of the world maya championships started when she was 30, and she can spin some 10, 20 times .... so I think its not too late, - at any age it just takes lots of work,
    To get started search on spin technique, and maybe get one of the spin dvds out there, Eddie, Magna, Seaon have produce their own spin training dvds
     
  14. nycsalsero

    nycsalsero Member

    When doing a free spin are you spinning on the ball of one foot or taking lots of small steps? When practicing my spins, I always do the former. This only seems to work for about 3 spins though...
     
  15. KiwiMambo

    KiwiMambo New Member

    It's never too late. Lessons with a good instructor and practice are the key.
     
  16. ITALO2275

    ITALO2275 New Member

    OK
    you have to look at this
    Got to youtube.com and type in the search salsa spins
    look at mao salsa spins he does 5 spins(he is amaizing)
    This is my goal I do not care How long it takes or what it takes.

    Let me know what you think
     
  17. pielcanela

    pielcanela New Member

    :) that is what I am working on too, so let me know how it goes, I am up to two spins, but only 1 out of 10 come nice and sharp, I barely can do 3 ... I been working on it for two months now -- 20 mim 3 times a week, get ready for some dizzy moments, but after a couple of weeks i got used to it, and as your spot gets better, the dizzyness goes away, -- tip, don't practice by spinning for the sake of spinning, make every spin count, correct technique will get you there
     
  18. ITALO2275

    ITALO2275 New Member


    I just thought that guy was amaizing!!!

    I am dong the same thing Taking it slow and make sure the technique is ok I am starting with 100 spins On each side 5 times a week.
    I know people prep Different as Sean Does withstepping forward with the foot.I am starting with side step. Not sure if it make a difference.
     
  19. pielcanela

    pielcanela New Member

    I also prep by pointing the non-weighted knee to the side, almost like in a 45 degree angle, with my feet fairly close, Mao does it with a wide stance which maybe helpful to create extra momentum to carry you through the 5, however at least at the beginning that extra momentum has been a hindrance, he also brings up his non-weighted foot up, which I found to be helpful speed wise but makes you quite unstable - also when doing spins near a partner, that foot should probably be near the other one to avoid collisions --
     
  20. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    good job, and keep working hard pielcanela! remember, one clean, controlled spin is better than five sloppy ones! i think spins are one of those things that someone can ALWAYS improve... (even if you have been spinning for years and years, you can always try for more spins, more control, more styling during the spin, more consistency, etc.).
     

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