Tango Argentino > "Front cross" and "Back cross"

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by All Sales Are Final, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. Hello again, what does it mean "front cross" and "back cross"? I have heard people using it recently.

    I was only taught cross-system cross and parallel-system cross. Is it something more advanced? Can the cross in each system be divided into 2 front/back, giving 4 total possibilities?

    Explanation will be appreciated. Thank you!
     
  2. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    And on each side. And a woman's cross/man's cross. You do the count. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  3. koinzell

    koinzell Active Member

    Those two are the same thing.

    There 8 possibilities. It's about where you are relative to your partner. In the basic step, you walk "outside partner left." You can either cross her left over right (which you already know) or right over left. You can so do this "outside partner right." Then you can do the same thing, but moving backwards, so there's 8.

    Seems simple, but this is very advance stuff. You have to move with your body or else the woman will not feel it.
     
  4. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Active Member

    "front cross" and "back cross"

    In my part of the world these are synonyms for forward ocho and backward ocho. Ochos are done in cross system.
     
  5. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    I like doing ochos in the parallel system :)

    Basically i think the "cross" as a figure and the cross system vs. parallel system are not that closely related. A cross will (sometimes - if the leader does not match it with some footwork for themself) switch from parallel to the cross system, but so will a (not-matched) doubletime or a silent weightshift. And the cross system will turn a sidestep into an ocho.

    Maybe we should talk about "matched weight" vs. "mismatched weight" to disentangle these different concepts?

    So we have:
    Cross system vs. parallel system: in the cross system the leader and followers weight is on the same foot (i.e. if the leaders weight is on the right foot the follwers weight is on the right foot, too). In the parallel system the weight is mismatched, i.e. if the leaders weight is on the right foot the followers weight is on the left foot. This is mostly unrelated to which tracks we are on - e.g. if i do ochos as the leader and don't lead ochos we can walk 2 track in the crossed system (this is something i like a lot as a move), or if we are offset we also can interleave in any of the systems. Though if we want to do 2 track we are probably parallel , and 3 tracks (either right or left) probably in the cross system

    Crossed ochos vs. pivoted ochos: A extreme pivoted ocho is based on pivoting, and stepping straight backwards from the pivoted position. A extreme crossed ocho is based on stepping sideways around the standing foot so that the legs are crossing and uncrossing. Most real ochos fall somewhere on that range, as pivoted ochos are limited by dissocation and crossed ochos are limited by how flexible ones hip joints are.

    The cross as a figure: The cross as a figure is when both feet are next to each other in the "wrong" position, i.e. the right foot is to the left of the left foot. There are two versions of that - the left behind the right, and the right behind the left, and for each of these versions two ways to get into it - if we look at right behind left we can get there by moving the left foot to the front and right of the right foot, or by moving the right to the back and left of the left foot. (and there are quite a few different ways to get to this position, both as an adornment or "load bearing")

    So depending on the context "front cross" and "back cross" can mean a whole lot of different things - (and it can get confusing - it is possible to be in the cross system, lead a crossing front ocho / forward cross and then use a barrida to guide the follower into a back cross (this is a neat figure that works very well, and followers tend to find it amusing, especially as they then get to figure out how to get out of the cross gracefully ;) )
     
  6. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    While I'm not positive (as I wasn't there with you to hear the usage), they may be using to "Naveira speak", as I call it. Naviera came up with his "system" (among other things) which is a terminology used to describe movements (and it's based on the mollinette (or giro) as the "basis" for it (where front crossing and back crossing steps routinely occur, and can also occur when walking).

    There are people who can explain his system much better than me, but I suspect the people were referring to crossing steps vs open steps.

    Assuming I'm guessing correctly, this has little to do with cross system vs parallel system.
     
    Angel HI likes this.
  7. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    Alberto Paz and Alex Krebs use exactly the same terminology. I agree that it has nothing to do with cross system vs parallel system.
     
    Angel HI likes this.
  8. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    This all seems unnecessarily complicated to me. All Sales asked 2 questions. Firstly,
    The reply is simple; the lady is sometimes led to dance a forward cross (like the normal crusada that comes from a normal caminada when you are dancing forward, and she is dancing backward). The lady is sometimes led to dance a rear cross (like when dancing normal ochos adelante [you dancing forward/she ochos backward], and you cause her to cross in the back after the ocho). Yes, there are other variations, but these are typically the simplest.

    Secondly,
    dchester's and UK's posts (#6 #7) answer this well.
     

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