Salsa > Has guaracha got a clave?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by opendoor, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Had a discussion with friends, now I´m a little bit disturbed. So my question:
    Has guaracha got calves, or a clave, or at least a syncopated rhythm? Thanks for advice in advance.
  2. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Yes...Guaracha is a fast version of Danzon.
  3. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    But not all parts in a danzon have a clave.
  4. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Didnt say it did.. you asked was there any, and i said yes. Even salsa has songs ,where clave is only implied.

    Clave " rhythm "also, ,as opposed to the actual Clave, may still be heard thru for .e.g. piano.
    opendoor likes this.
  5. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Could it be possible that we talk of two different animals? I thought of Guaracha (the folklore format) and you meant Guaracha-Son? The first beiing without (european tradition) the latter with clave (eastern tradion).

    As for Danzón. Danzón is a slow offshoot of the Habanera (which was called danza in Havana, as the hamburger simply was known as steak in my hometown Hamburg). The Danzon definitely got no clave !! It got the tresillo. Only the montuno section of the Danzón (which was a late development in the history of the Danzón) got the clave (eastern tradition). For me anyway.

    The habanera-pattern
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  6. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    My references are invariably from the indigenous perspective ,as traditional dance formats .

    Ive never given a 2nd thought to Danzon, with or without clave.Altho, I cant imagine that, not even an implied is there .

    I have an extensive Cuban collection , and need to check what is present ( or not ) before I comment.
    opendoor likes this.
  7. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I did some research now. The guaracha got under the influence of black music (i.e. syncopated rhythms) not before the 30s. The guaracha stems from the canary island (the same with the guajira, I posted this before in this forum). In the 30s the guraracha was fused with black music: it got an underlying cinquillo rhythm (which is not a clave) and a montuno section at the end with a son clave. There has never been a musical connection to the danzón. Only the fusion patterns were similar (montuno adding).
  9. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    but there is...

    Antonio Arcano was a band leader in the 30s and he was the one who incorporated a Conga to the Danzon rhythm ,and from that inception, another musician,Aniceto Diaz then added a vocalist to the Danzon music ( which never had been included before ), also ,adding Clave and Maracas .
    As to Guajira, thats a Son rhythm, and unless Cuba gave up the "rights " to that, then I guess anyone may lay claims, to all the musical styles that Cuba produced.The music today, has had so many changes ,and the waters have become very muddy

    And, we must include PR to the mix, as the sharecroppers there ,were known as guajiros and the musics name surely must have been extrapolated to Guajira.

    As to lyrics. the genre does draw heaviley on Spanish traditions . Also,as many may not know:altho the music is constant, there is often a change of lyrics, in the most recorder song, Guntanamera , telling a different story .

    We are talking basic concepts, here.From Orq. Aragon to Fajardo Estrellas and several other contributors.

    Roots are seldom crystal clear, as much of the info was never written down ,so hearsay and opinion, seem to play a large part, with obvious exceptions.

    PS.. Cha cha is a good e.g. where there are several claimants to its name ( the dance and the titling of the genre )
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2014
    Angel HI likes this.

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