Salsa > How do we identify Salsa music?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by squirrel, Nov 26, 2004.

  1. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Ahhh.... the old " Musc/teach. " conflict. I dont believe we are in dis-agreement . I did stipulate that, EVERY dance has roots, and those roots are seldom portrayed in their true indigenous form, as they would not " sell ",so Im not dis-agreeing with you ,about going back to the year Dot . BUT , todays compositions, are still founded in those roots. Son, as we know is a comparative new kid on the "block " compared to the time of the " drum " and pretty much all dance forms were solo.

    And, my memory does go back ( a LOT farther than yrs, considering my age !! )

    To remember, I must speak in context, of HOW those rhythms have been transposed to suit the general public. There are still some hardcore salsero/s, who are insistant about developing indigenous Rumba, as an integral part of salsa .There are even bands who are closer to their musical roots ( all the Son " soneros " that, dont go over very well with the club types ) .

    As a teacher, I may only talk in absolutes, about the dance music that is played today,and its recent evolution , and to "take " it back to the 17th century ,serves no real purpose in a " dance " discussion of todays dance/ music, "roots " ?; do I inject some of this yes ?, of course, but only in a somewhat superficial way in my teachings.
    All the musical textbook stuff, is more for academics ( and music nerds, like me ).

    Your claim about being a musician, always reminds me of a comment, that a well known band leader made.. " I dont know what the hell they are dancing to, but its not what we are playing ! "
    by the way.. do you know who made the Bolero ( the dance ) popular ?.
    opendoor likes this.
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    If you ask this way I would suppose the English!? English rumba before that rumba-wars used to be close to bolero.

    But if you would ask who made the bolero music popular, there are actually differing answers around:
    A salsero who only knows that fusion-style bolero-son will answer Ignacio Pineiro.
    Following wikipedia it is Miguel Falíde, and asking me, of course Pepe Sanchez.

    When Falíde created the danzón, the genre bolero cubano already was mature. You can read everywhere that Falíde incorporated the bolero into the danza. But I do not follow this view. Falíde only slowered down the danza puertoriqueña to the habanera tempo, changed the instrumentation, and added a third part that later developed into the mambo. And the dancing style changed: While the danza francesa still was a choreographed contra and square dance, the danza puertoriqueña already was a travelling dance. The danzón finally was improvized on the spot, what surely made it popular.

    Finally. Do you remember that I wrote in the chachachá thread that guajira stems from Tenerife? Now I want to add that bolero stems from Mallorca. And to our american friends: either island is a very popular european holiday resort and also famous for the squabbling between english and german guys for beach chair resources. See you!
  3. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Actually.. No.. it was developed in the States and brought to promince by2 separate couples, via the movies.

    1.. Veloz and Yolanda

    And,George Raft . The Chain schools took it on board ,and embellished it to a much greater degree. Lifts, which were an integral part ( it was primarily a show dance ) were not included .

    As to Guajira.. that Son rhythm first appeared in mambo ( the dance ) and was eventually danced as Triple mambo in its own right ( this is seen on old clips from the late 30s and 40s ) and we also used it, back when... the Cha Cha, which is credited to musicians/singers front stage,( just a fwd/back basic ) is really an extension of that . One breaks on "1" the other on "2" .

    The syncop. are also different . And again, the States, were the ones who developed Cha, into more than the 2/3 steps being done at that time. In fact, if you look at old Son, there are steps which have a direct lineage, to both Mambo and Cha . There are some good old clips on Salsa Forums .

    and " English Rumba " as we used to call it, was patterned after the Box in Mambo, and Bolero was also a strong influence , from a pattern standpoint.

    prior to that ( what I grew up with ) was a Square form, based upon Danzon ( nearly identical ) .
    opendoor likes this.
  4. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    tempo for one thing mambos tend to be slower

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