Tango Argentino > How do you lead a Fouette ?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by opendoor, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

  2. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member


    Why would you want to? It looks horrible...
  3. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    I was wondering what it actually was...

    Yes what's the point of it?

    (and I'm sorry ... the dancing on those 2 vids ... yeuch! ... )
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    ..just found it interesting..... :rolleyes:

    And what about the followers? Have you been lead into them? Or is it a styling element you use on your own, when the lead is lost ?
  5. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    It looks weird, to me. I mean, it's an interesting technical exercise I guess, but I don't like the look of it. Purely personal preference of course.

    It looks like you need to catch the woman at the mid-point of a side step, then apply some energy - a bit like you might do with a boleo I guess.
  6. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I actually didn't know there was a formal name for the butt wiggle thing, so that's interesting to learn. I didn't like they were executed in either video, but I have seen some that I have liked. While it's not really part of my normal dance, I did take a class once where it was part of a pattern we did. We got into it, from the middle of the ocho cortado.

    As I recall, the lead was sort of like doing side rock steps, with a little bit of tortion (or disassociation).
  7. jantango

    jantango Active Member

  8. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I don't know, if you lead an ocho cortado juuust right... ;)
  9. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I seem to recall Daniel Trenner saying that he saw milongueros lead them in Buenos Aires years ago.

  10. mshedgehog

    mshedgehog New Member

    It would never have occurred to me to call it that, but as far as I can see it's just two or three rapid changes of direction without collecting the feet, plus the fact that the couple's knees are bent which makes it very obvious. Maybe in each case the woman is adding something of her own - she might be choosing, as part of the quality of her response, whether to point her knees in the different directions so sharply, or not. It's hard to know, but I think so.

    I suppose that you could lead it in any way that you could lead any weight change without collecting - a fairly small movement of the body or shoulders. I don't think I'd follow it if it were led with the right hand, but I would if it were led with the body. I certainly know people who lead this and I'm pretty sure I have had it led on me, although it's not what I'm normally looking for in social dancing. It's physically very demanding, and not exactly flattering for a woman who's not a professional dancer or especially young. It's not my thing really, and not a type of dance I can do with complete sincerity unless I've got my head set for it in advance.

    But if it were a lot smaller it might be fine.You could definitely lead a mini version of it in close embrace and make it small enough for social dancing. It would be a lot less obvious, it would be essentially just a quick double weight change with the feet apart, and the legs would be straighter - tricky to lead and follow, maybe, but not ugly or bizarre. In fact I'm pretty sure I've done little ones often, without them seeming at all unusual or attention-seeking, and of course they look nothing like this. I'm not 100% sure it's the same thing but it seems like the same basic principle.
  11. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Fouette? LOL
    And that move when he throws her against the wall, then comes after her, how would you call that? :mrgreen:
  12. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Believe she was the director of that take, as always in life... :eyebrow:

    ... Wallwich :???:
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I like another poster said, would never have thought to call that a fouette, since I only know the term as it applies to ballet.

    I would never do that kind of back and forth twisting on my own when I've lost the lead.. The leader would be completely at a loss as to what I'm doing or how to get me back under control. If he has given me space to play while he waits, I MIGHT do something that pronounced, but only with a leader that I know well and we have extablished a dancing relationship that allows for me to take over and move very independently for a few measures.

    I have had leaders lead something sorta similar, but they usually let it continue to corkscrew in the first direction or simply stop after the first 180 turn, rather than go back and forth.
  14. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

  15. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    I first learned that move as a variation to the ocho cortado, instead of cutting the turn & going immediately to the cross, you cut the turn then lead back towards the turn.

    Leonardo & Miriam do it in this clip, in the workshop Miriam explained that (for all the movements) the woman added more or less energy to the lead. Leonardo led it basically as described above:


    in the sequence that Eddy & Veronica taught in this workshop it's more obviously an ocho cortado variation:

  16. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I... agree.

    It sort-of works with those followers, wearing those floppy trousers, but I imagine that it'd look a bit ugly if the follower was wearing a skirt or similar.

    It all looks a bit too "contemporary dance" to me. And this is me saying that.
  17. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Yes, I can visualise that, that makes sense - but that means the follower's weight is not evenly distributed, right?
  18. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member


    I think that's right, I feel it as shifted from 1 side to the next.

    I've heard moves like this called "zarandeo"
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I think you could probably do it either way, but what I've felt and what I see in the OP's posted videos is not weight-shifted but centered over both.

    I would think that leading it with rapid little weight shifts would be harder to keep under control... but then, I'm not an advanced leader.... maybe that's actually easier than keeping the follower still over a centered duel-weighted position.

    If I stand up and try it on my own power, its easier to do it by simply rotating back and forth centered over 2 bent legs than by shifting my weight back and forth from foot to foot, even without lifting either foot.

    On the other hand, maybe it looks better with the shifting, as in the 2nd video of your post. I would need more than just these couples to decide for sure, because some people can make anything look good, and other people, well, ... can't.
  20. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: Fouette or shall I say wiggling :)


    So, thank you very much for your analyzing and your comments, even if you dont like this move. On the basis of my yesterday night experiences with unfamiliar (right word? sorry my english) followers, I think they are rather lead by the hips and the torso than with the right arm.

    Pablo K & Frauke (1:39) This Fouette is done out of the mirror position (espejo) and yet easy to lead, only by a weight change between the two legs and a slight turning of the torso. So every follower with a feeling for dramatic moments could understand what I intended.

    Pablo R & M (2:47) This seems to require a high degree of torsion, bc it is done in the crossed (false) mirror and my right hand had to reach round the womans right rib arch, simultaneously standing twisted with changing weight from the right (front) to the left (rear) leg. (Posture is still my :( raw point) .... So my yesterday night experiences: one stopped moving, asking what this slight downward lead should mean, the other one could follow, but told me, that I was not standing upright due to my great torsion, and that it felt like I was going to overthrow her.

    Miriam & Leo (1:00) I have not tried this one yet. But since it is done in a stopped sidestep (opening) this might be an easy position bc only a slight change of direction is needed as it is in the first example. I find the delayed contra body movements interesting when done slowly as shown.


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