Tango Argentino > How do you lead a Fouette ?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by opendoor, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. chrisjj

    chrisjj New Member

    Whether children understand these terms is irrelevent since this discussion is not for them, but children most certainly do understand the difference between someone who helps them to learn (teaches) and someone who tells them what to do (instructs). So do most adults.
  2. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Chris, please tell me...

    Hi chris, it makes me wonder that you insist and nag at the usage of these educational terms. Are you a (tango) teacher? What is your trauma? Please tell me/us a little bit about your experiences that lead you to this sharp distinction.

    Here my credo and my trauma: in Germany we distinguish (in generally at school) between a rather constructivistic way of learning, and a more instructional one. The former provides more liberty for the learner, the latter suitable procedures of solutions. For decades there is a discussion, which method is more effective, longer lasting, more satisfactioning, and (!) cheaper. But in either concept, the learner has to do the job. The brain simply cannot avoid learning, but learning people can be scared away by an inappropriate method.

    I myself was a very difficult, knotty, lets say discerning student, at school, at university, and at TA. I ran out of my first tango class and thought it was better to learn on my own. Still I am very down on tango syllabi, methods and philosophies. Two years ago I met someone which I could adopt as a teacher. The former tango teachers were instructors (in your sense), including some BAs greats and well known tango masters and milongueros ! (and I was chided here in this forum for making it public ... :nope: ..)

    so far
    wr OD
  3. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    To be honest, this is a fairly trivial semantic difference.

    Whilst I agree with your definitions - instructions are steps to be followed, lessons imply the possibility of interactivity - but I'm not sure why it's such a big deal?
  4. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    FWIW, just because you claim that words "instruct" and "teach" have different meanings, doesn't mean that all the rest of us are going to subscribe to that.

    BTW, to you have anything constructive to say about how to lead the move, or is your intent to just keep trying to confuse what people are saying?
  5. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    BOT, possibly, has Horacio Godoy invented a new movement similar to the "Fouette"

    In the abscence of any correct terminology I am calling it the Butt-leo.

    cant say I like it but I know some ladies who will adore it:rolleyes: any excuse to wiggle.
  6. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Very apropos, I would think. Should we enter this into the tango "vocabulary?" :applause::uplaugh:
  7. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    And I'm very appreciative of those ladies.

  8. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Brilliant! We should absolutely have an alternative tango glossary.

    Someone start a thread!
  9. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe we need a new thread to ask how do you lead a Buttleo?

  10. chrisjj

    chrisjj New Member

    > Hi chris, it makes me wonder that you insist and nag at
    > the usage of these educational terms.

    I do not insist or nag. Anyone is welcome to use alternative terms. And if there are any better ones, I'd like to hear them.

    > The former tango teachers were instructors (in your sense), including
    > some BAs greats and well known tango masters and milongueros !

    IME almost all of the BsAs so-called greats* seen abroad are mere instructors. At home, their pupils were stage dancers, for which instruction is appropriate. I don't believe they were mistaken as teachers of social dancing by anyone in BsAs... just by some abroad who are apparently unclear on the difference between stage and social dancing. Including I'm sad to say some UK organisers.

    > (and I was chided here in this forum for making it public ... :nope: ..)

    If it is any consolation, the recent London experience with the BsAs "maestro" whose name we are not allowed to mention was similarly disastrous. But equally London has been lucky enough to have some truly inspirational social dancers from BsAs such as Ricardo Vidort and Gavito, who ran a milonga in the city for a while in the 1990's.
  11. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    OK, fine, so there's a difference of terminology. Now, can either another thread be started to discuss what is, or is not a teacher, or instructor, or whatever else...or can the subject be dropped?
  12. spectator

    spectator Member

    Yay Peaches! please can we put a collective foot down on this multiple thread pointless argument. obviously to teach and to instruct have different meanings, otherwise we wouldn't have two words unless one is talking about using a soil manipulation implement, but in this context it is irrelevant and a bit disrespectful to non native speakers to keep wittering on about it. who bloody cares? I don't I'm scanning pages of boring crap!

    I like the buttleo, in a lot of the canaro milongas it fits absolutely perfectly with the music and and mood. Hooray for adding a bit of light hearted wiggle!
  13. chrisjj

    chrisjj New Member

    Then it wasn't pointless after all! :)

    Almost everyone lumbered with the wrong one, eventually...
  14. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: wiggle thing, butt-leo, zarandeo, fouetté

    Strange, I absolutely forgot about that move. Since I worked on that dragging thing (sostenida) last week, I remembered Zoop´s post in this respect.

    So it seems that fouettés and sostenidas share the same technique: watch Pablo and Eugenia at 2:55 , he stopps her gently centered over both feet, and drags her forth then.

    Vamos: youtube.com/watch?v=5vQ4FZsil0k

  15. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    The trickier one seems (to me) to be the one that starts at 2:18. It starts as a volcada, then she plants her free foot and it turns into one of those corkscrew things even though it continues to rotate the original direction. Getting her to put weight on her free leg and stay weighted on both in the middle of a rotating volcada seems like a tricky lead (with my complete lack of ability to lead a volcada at all) Maybe I'm wrong.
  16. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    their dancing just looks all wrong for the music
  17. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    @Zoopsia: have to think it over, but agree, seems that this part is kind of trained or arranged..

    @ border: bingo, but don´t mix up music with relationship, or vice versa ! (if my memory of 2009/10 serves me right...)

  18. Madahlia

    Madahlia Member

  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

  20. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I dunno about how easy or difficult it is to lead that move, but they are so easy and fun to follow! :D

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