How do you make dancing fun for followers who can't stay on beat?

[timberamayor]

timberamayor, brilliant.

Why you make me blush

When people have this problem I always say, "who would you rather dance with, the music or your partner?"

I'd definitely rather have the dance with my partner work better. I also know that some people are beginners and I was too once, so I pretty much never say no if asked to dance unless the guy is sleazy on the dance floor. But it is somewhat painful to be dancing to a non-beat. Still what's five minutes of my time in the larger scheme of things? Maybe in 6 months this guy will be a monster on the dancefloor and he'll rememer how "well" we danced together

Then there are actually people who I think are beat-deaf just like there are people who are tone deaf and they never ever ever get the beat, at least not in this lifetime. But they a very few. Most people pick it up eventually if they really want to. I think listening to the music all the time is key to learning to feel the rhythm. People who attend class for 1 hour once a week are going to have a much harder time, or at least a longer learning curve.

 

[timberamayor]

I also think beginner dancers dance faster than the music because they don't have a balanced core/aren't used to moving thier torso in small quick movments so they overdo their movements. This then slows them down in relation to the music. so they speed up their body movements to try to keep up and end up overdoing it.

I think this may depend on the type of salsa a person dances. I dance casino and there aren't any sudden movements, or sudden changes of direction and the torso movement and arm motion are the same as when a person is walking except heightened or exaggerated, or however I should put it. And the beginners still often dance too fast.

I think sometimes beginners also focus too much on the "hip motion" rather than on getting the basic step down. The hips come from the steps and will come naturally in time. I don't know if you saw the movie "Dirty dancing - Havana Nights" but I had to laugh when the Mexican actor was telling the girl she was "too stiff" and then showed her how to move her hips. He was totally "pushing" his hips out and looked just as stiff as any non-latino beginner. I guess it's hard to find a good actor who actually dances.

When I follow, if the leader is off time, I try to ignore the music and dance the leads rhythm (if they have one). I usually won't dance with them again, as it is so hard to ignore the main reason you are dancing in the first place.

Exactly.

 

[timberamayor]

To dance slowly or quickly does take some physical skill. However, there is a middle tempo that requires mainly the common skills that any person would have. I think lots of beginners dance too quickly because they are anxious about following and trying to guess what they should be doing, rather than relaxing and just allowing the leader to lead. I find one of the most common obstacles to better dancing is simply going to fast.

Yes there is a problem of followers anticipating what will happen next. That's one good reason to dance with people you don't take classes with. When people from the same class go out together it gives you a set of 'safe' partners and is a good way to practice stuff from class, but all too often I think it falls into routine patterns from class. Dancing with people you've never met requires you to really hone your following skills, your sensitivity to signals from different leads. But of course it can be scarier too.

On the other hand, there are leaders who lead poorly, or too late, and the followers must guess at what they should be doing.

Yeah. I confess I've been off the dance floor for a while and just started going out again recently. Because I am less accoustomed to dancing these days, I really notice the difference in leads. When you're out all the time it's easy enough to compensate for a poor lead, but when you are there waiting for the signal and it's too late or it's unclear which direction they want you to go I have a hard time guessing these days.

I danced with a guy a couple weeks ago who is obviously from an LA or NY style back ground, i.e. he has linear salsa as his base. But he also knows some stuff from casino. But I had a pretty hard time following him and we were all over the place dancing on 1 then 5 then 3 then 1 again. I actually started laughing because I just thought it was so funny that we were all over the place. I don't think he even noticed and just thought I was laughing because I was having fun. After the dance he complemented me on my dancing, which made me want to laugh again because I know we were all over the place...Not exactly the same problem as being off beat but the whole business of changing timing over and over...I guess maybe I was good at quickly slipping into whatever beat he happened to be on and that's why he thought it was a good dance:?:

Like I said, since I haven't been out much for a while I thought maybe it was just me, but a good friend of mine who has danced every weekend for years and years non-stop and even teaches classes nowadays told me she had the same experience with the guy. But I guess tht'äs what makes each dance and adevnture. :lol:

 

[Sagitta]

Sometimes the beat changes in the song. For example, from 2-3 to 3-2 clave. So, if a person changes what they dance on maybe they aren't really changing bit keeping track to the music? Not saying that this is the case here, but just as a comment in general on songs.

I know that I sometimes dance salsa on3 and sometimes on1 depending on the music, though I don't really mix that up just randomly in a song. I think that it is important to match or try to flow with the music, rather than fighting it, just as it always is easier to let the river current take you along than rowing upstream.

 

[Sagitta]

Oh, another thing...if a person cannot get the beat I just do some moves so she just steps like walking and doesn't interfere, timing the moves to sych with aspects of the music. I don't have to follow the quick quick slow...or quick,quick,quicktap or whatever other basic is followed. This way I can really enjoy myself rather than just matching either music or partner.

 

[casasalsa]

if someone is dancing off time, its probably because you are grooving to something that makes no sense to them.....like if an On2 dancer dances with an On1 dancer that doesnt know what dancing On2 is.........my only advise is to figure out what makes her basic comfortable, dance THAT, and THEN do nice, simple moves =) but chances are that if you do just that...you will realize that she can do more than you thought =)

 

[Ray Sison]

People usually dance off beat unintentionally for two reasons, I think. One is that she has a hard time finding the beat. You can tell this by dancing a few basic steps. Two, is that you lead her to do something that she doesn't have the skill to do yet, so she slows down to think it through (It's as it you can see the wheels cranking in her head). And then she realizes she's off beat but she doesn't know how to get back on because she's not experienced. In the former situation, you have to be really solid on your beat and have to have very good- solid, body rhythm. If you can pull that off, you can keep her on the beat to a great extent. In the later, you'll have to find a modification of the moves you lead like a single turn instead of dble, outside traveling turns instead of inside, etc. I have stopped trying to use my arms to get her to move faster. That'd just get her off of her balance, and then it'd get messy. And then try to get her on the beat again on the next measure.

Kudos to you for trying to make the basics more fun. I know what it's like to look at a girl when you know all you can do comfortably well with her are just a few basics meanwhile knowing in the back of your mind that she's expecting to be swept off her feet.

Good advice...

 

[GayleR]

Hmmm, lots of good answers here...but I find it hard to believe that "a lot of the girls just cannot lock into the rhythm of salsa" and "some of them are even teachers". Perhaps the leader is hearing something different?? It's possible. I have danced with guys who think they're on the beat, in fact they're convinced of it, and they are not. I guess I am saying if the original poster finds THAT many followers can't stay on the beat, maybe it's him. Just saying.

 

[tangotime]

Hmmm, lots of good answers here...but I find it hard to believe that "a lot of the girls just cannot lock into the rhythm of salsa" and "some of them are even teachers".
/quote]

Dancing on time and dancing rhythmically are mutually exclusive in many cases . Its one of the most common faults ( in all genres ).. and, dont confuse " teaching " with dancing.. there are many great dancers, but that does not always correspond into great teaching.. teaching takes many years to develop the requisite skills ( note the many 123, 567 types )..