Discussion in 'Salsa' started by denito, Dec 22, 2014.
How would you teach a visual learner?
Lol...this is funny. I've had less experienced instructors say it's about the patterns, but the more experienced one (who is still very young yet has won a few competitions) says that timing is the main thing in salsa and that a lot of people still can't get the salsa timing right as Angel HI eluded to.
Salsa is FAR more than about patterns and the technique is quite different from ballroom. I've seen highly trained ballroom dancers look completely clueless in salsa and struggle to dance it. It's arrogant at the very least to say that a ballroom dancer should be able to transfer easily to salsa. Like learning any new dance, you need to go through the fundamentals from the bottom up - a trained ballroom dancer should know this. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit irate but I see it often that ballroom dancers have this attitude. Many ballroom dancers must "unlearn" a lot of things when learning salsa.
Even the cuban motion expressed in ballroom latin is quite different than in salsa. Watch videos of NY salsa dancers at a congress etc, and you'll see they are indeed very skilled and in some ways the skills are in fact more difficult to master than the highly codified structure allows in ballroom. The ability to improvise a lot more and respond dynamically to music is something I only ever see equalled in WCS and Zouk.
I've danced salsa with highly trained ballroom dancers. Because the vast majority of their training was a set routine with a set partner they struggled to follow even basic salsa leads. It's not that they were bad dancers by any stretch - it's that Salsa is indeed a very different dance that requires learning from the ground up. The emphasis on the lead in Salsa is light and elastic, whereas those dancers I danced with were accustomed to a very different lead dynamic and weren't really accustomed to improvisational leading.
This is not to say all ballroom dancers are like this - just the ones I've danced with. I think many in the ballroom world would do well to properly understand that Salsa is not a dumbed down dance if one takes it to a high level, and the level one can take it is pretty much infinitely high, if one were to live forever.
The one "absentee " in the discussion , is the MUSIC.. There's nothing close ,to the complexities of latin music to which one dances in Salsa.
Bar phrasing can and does change ,with the musical accents changing on occasion by Clave, it seems, at will .Add to this fact, the variety of choices in "styles " of music to which one may dance salsa, each, subtle and different ,and should be approached, and reflected in what one dances .
And.... here's one of the oddest things about the genre; it will often include passages, musically speaking, from other latin dances ,built into the "framework " of the song; for e.x. as in Cumbia, Pachanga, and Guajira.
The genre is also "split " into sub genres, from "Classic ", "Dura " to " Romantica " styles of music.
Many of the bands also play Boleros, Cha cha/ Guajiras and Cuban style Rumbas .
And one tactic I use is showing them the "bad way" (and usually exaggerated), and the "good way".
I used to think that Salsa was part of what you're taught when you learn ballroom, as part of the latin dances.
Maybe it's me, but I find this as well. I've danced with some amazing social ballroom dancers for salsa and they can't see to follow leads properly and are very stiff as well so it makes it harder for me to control them. However, when I dance with newer follows who are just learning salsa, I find it much easier. There's even one dancer who according to the studio is at a Silver I level, but I've noticed when she dances with anyone other than her instructor, she can't follow a simple cross body outside turn. With most follows, if the lead is done properly, the cross body outside turn is one of the easiest to follow even if you've never taken a class before.
It only got adopted into Syl. by the major Soc. quite recently, but not included in the big 5 .
The reasons are primarily, 2 different disciplines.. AND style .
Yep, true. Ballroom always seem more rigid to me and more dramatic whereas the Latin club dances are more fast paced and loose. Ballroom followers always seem to be pretty tense.
Fast paced ?.. not always . As a DJ, I never play warp speed, and my sets, are a blend of Med. fast to fast.
The one dance that does go over big ,at speed, for latinos , is Merengue .
Social B/room can also be more relaxed, if it's taught with that approach. My social classes are given that treatment .
Well I meant a lot faster than social ballroom like tango or waltz. Salsa and merengue are definitely faster whereas bachata is slightly slower. I find that ballroom is more rigid because you have to have a much stronger frame.
Merengue can be very slow as can some salsa( the best for really understanding the music ).. and. IF you adopt a Cuban hold, then the "frame/ Hold " takes on a different aspect.
The majority of salsa teachers, teach a BR hold and frame, with space in between partners. Ironically, the salsa crowd do NOT like the BR "look " yet, continue use its upper body the same way !
The Bronze, Silver, and Gold syllabus in ballroom are adopted from Casino style, so a cbl outside turn is not part of the syllabus. The odd thing is though that the technique taught in BR is far removed from that taught in actual Casino.
I hope the BR dancers here don't get offended by this. Merely that if someone does that they take a step back and maybe see it as an opportunity for humility and learning.
Really? How old is 'casino style'? Ballroom syllabus has been around for almost 100 years....
Oh really? I didn't even know that. I thought it was pretty standard because you see just about everyone doing it.
Real Syl. ( several contributors to the effort ), did not come into effect until the late 20s.and was not put into chart form until the late 30s.. Casino was being danced in a very basic format before that, along with Danzon .
Is it taught on "1 " ?. I haven't purchased a syl. from either of my Soc. (I just don't trust BR )..
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