Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by hbboogie1, May 20, 2009.
I have no idea what this means.
iTS just Heather's daytime job as a roadsweeper
where she practices her barridas in the gutters of sarf London
Sweeping. As in a sweeping generalization, I assume.
If I applied those rules to the followers I want to dance with it it would not amount to more than 10% of ladies at an avergae milonga and more locally less than 1%
and I couldn't say whether you fall in the 10% or not :tongue:
*shrug* That's fine. You don't have to ask whoever you don't want to. If you make the decision to ask women to dance even when you don't particularly want to...well, that's your choice.
As to being in that 10%...all I'd ever ask is not to know if I am or not.
I prefer BTM's explanation
If you can't lead it, figure out why not. The easiest way is to ask the woman with whom you are dancing. She may say it's not clear to her what you are trying to do. Then at least you know you have to be clearer yourself on what you are doing and change it.
That is really interesting; so I invite the 70 year old mother of a tangoing friend to dance with me, who has come along to spend time with her daughter and to enjoy seeing her daughter dance but this is wrong by your standards because I am being kind and wish to include her in the dancing, and not because she is a good dancer. Isnt that advocating elitism? I will only dance with you if I think your good enough. I know plenty of men and women who are like that even teachers who once the class is over will only dance with the best dancers.
And to Jantango; is that how men in BsAs choose their partners?
How men in BsAs choose their partners
If I could get into the minds of men in the milongas, I would be able to answer your question.
I know that one criteria for many is height and size. A physical compatibility for most men is important. I am not comfortable dancing with a very tall man because we can't dance cheek to cheek.
Men may choose a particular woman for her physical attributes or for her dancing ability or both.
Remember that it is the woman who selects first by resting her gaze on a man. It's up to him to initiate the invitation with a nod or movement of the lips and then wait for her acceptance.
There's times where I only feel like dancing with good dancers and times where I feel like dancing with everybody. What's wrong with that?
Healthy elitism drives excellence and mutual respect.
With all due respect, I don't understand how you got from what I said to your conclusion. I don't think I've said anything about how good people are, other than in reference to myself.
If you wish to be kind to someone and include her, that's wonderful. There's nothing wrong with that, IMO, as a reason to ask someone. I think it's a very good thing, actually.
I'm just saying for myself, personallythat I don't like to ask men to dance, because I don't want to "impose" myself on them ever. If a guy asks me, for whatever reason, I'm generally thrilled. But if a good dancer, who I know knows I exist, has not ever asked me to dance over the course of however long, I'm not going to ask him because I don't want to be his charity dance for the evening. I just figure that he has his reasons for not wanting to dance with me, and I can respect that. It's not a judgement of other people.
Here is where I differ (at least for me). Getting snubbed by the "elites" does not motivate me to excel, nor does it build any feelings of respect. BTW, I understand that the culture is quite different in Buenos Aires, so I'm not talking about what goes on there (just here in the US, where I know a little about the people).
I was motivated (early on) by people dancing with me at my first milonga (when I absolutely sucked). I knew they were all better than me, but most of the women were still very nice to me. To this day, whenever I dance with someone who is a lot better than I, who gives me a great dance, it motivates me to improve so that someday I can give someone else as nice of an experience.
Now that I've progressed to somewhere between lousy and mediocre (depending on the night), I really want to get a lot better. While my understanding of tango is definitely increasing, sometimes I wonder about my ability to execute (put the knowledge into practice). In any case, I just hope I'm always as accommodating to newbies as others were to me.
What I inferred from your post is that you would like to be asked to dance based on the merit of your dancing. My teaching partner has the same view and I think she ends up sitting out a lot of the time. Since most of the blokes I know are decent chaps and quite a few are jivers where its okay for a woman to ask for a dance, then if you asked for a dance you would probably get a yes answer. If I make the assumption that most women think like you; then I shouldn't really ask them to dance.
You are making assumptions about there being any reason at all. More often than not the people I havnt danced with are just the people I havmt danced with. just chance.
I would prefer it if you didn't use the term "With all due respect": it implies that you are getting hot under the collar or you think I'm an idiot.
Apologies. It was not meant that way. T'was not hot under the collar, nor do I think you're an idiot.
I meant nothing more than what I said: with all due respect, blah... As in, I respect what you have to say, but yada yada yada (insert my statements here). No malice; no subtext; no sarcasm.
bafonso, If elitism was defined as "confidence in one's knowledge/understanding/intellect/abilities", perhaps I could beleive it...
Elite as in being part of a select group of great dancers (there can only be so many as statistics will tell you). Elitism in respecting each other's and valuing it beyond the dance floor.
While I value and admire great dancers, the ones I most admire do not become part of unhealthy cliques. A very important distinction...
My idea of elite is different than self-excluding cliques. Elite is not necessarily a rude and snobbish person. Picky, maybe, but not rude and snob.
but I know you well enough to know that respect is a given;
its an abused phrase and usually means the opposite when its used ( especially by politicians) the same as "no offence" before someone says something insulting
Always ironic when people say this when the definitive quote from The Godfather on this topic actually says:
TB, don't let anybody kid you. It's all personal, every bit of tango. Every refusal every man has to take every milonga of his life is personal. They call it tango. OK. But it's personal as hell. You know where I learned that from? The Don. My old man. The Godfather.
(*) The above is obviously a slight paraphrase. The actual original text below, in white, with one expletive removed.
Tom, don't let anybody kid you. It's all personal, every bit of business. Every piece of **** every man has to eat every day of his life is personal. They call it business. OK. But it's personal as hell. You know where I learned that from? The Don. My old man. The Godfather.
do you take contracts???
Separate names with a comma.