Tango Argentino > Introducing the Giro to Beginners

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by UKDancer, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. BTW, I prefer "chest to chest" when I go to traditional milonga, but I gained some eight over the past three years and with my belly in the way, unless I am dancing with a razor thin follow, it forces us into more of an offset "V." Also I have lifted weight for so many years that my chest is very big, so usually the ladies right breast fits between my two pecs, so I am forced into my embrace style by my body shape. Follows always tell me that I have a very comfortable embrace, so I think this works for my body.

    I think that humans are not made of cubes, planes, and triangles, so the V vs. parallel styles are ok in theory, but do not fit the real world. Look at tete, one of the best of the best for goodness sakes, he leads with the upper side of his belly.
  2. This actually makes no sense, because, one of the best feeling things that a follow can do, that just rocks my world is to do rhythmic embelishment to the music. This takes very sensitive listening skills and requires a strong connection. Only the best follows can do it, but it feels so incredibly good.
  3. That is a false distinction. Some of the best milongueras from BA that I have danced with do some very interesting stuff that you would probably call backleading. They will ask for moves, stop moves, do rhythmic embelishments, take over the lead of steps, etc. that contribute to the dance and feel amazing, that is if you listen for it (I love when a milonguera will subtly add her own rhythm to my steps). If you don't listen for it, you will never hear it and you will never experience that side of the dance.
  4. Sometimes it feels as if I am leading the melody with my movements, but the follow is leading the rhythm with our steps with a great follow from BA.
  5. Oh, and I have danced with many great follows from outside BA that can dance like this as well. My favorite dancers are actually from my own city in the United States.
  6. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Want to add "... with an argentine taxi dancer". At Malcom, X, and Cathedral, all together places where rather argentines use to dance the flexible V-hold prevails.
  7. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Yes all places where non-social tango is danced and non-tango
    to non-tango music or even non-dance tango music. You can find
    all styles to suit whatever your preference but you are citing
    mainly nuevo move monster places with uncrowded floors.
    If they were crowded there would be blood on the floor.

    It's important too to not generalise too widely about a venue
    and specify the milonga name because the character of the night
    is also influenced by the changing milonga organisers.

    Cachirulo has moved to Club Villa Malcolm and, possibly as a
    consequence of its reputation and nuevo clientele, now
    displays lists of the codigos applicable. The many languages
    might also reflects the international nature of his dancers.
    No doubt the organiser would prefer to return to the more
    central location of El Beso.

    None of these places reflect the social and sociable dance
    of one body with four legs. It just shows that you can find
    places to suit all tastes and I'm reminded to remind you
    of Chicho Frumboli's regret about losing the essence of tango
    in their quest to coin something nuevo. Not that he has
    changed his own dance - there's money in it.
  8. Like everything else in tango, that can be perfected too and some follows can use that "wiggle room" to create a feeling of a loving caress or other simular feelings.
  9. It's very clear that he was not talking about any type of embrace or style of dance. He was talking about losing the feeling that the old milongueros had...and complaining about dancing for looks alone.

    and (though I personally prefer parallel dancing), even the most traditional milonguero of all time, Ricardo Vidort danced with an offset "V" (with wiggle room between the partners, no less):

  10. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Not sure that's true - you can interpret him any way you like
    but he is of no consequence to me, I can't even watch him.
    I really see little point in debating this, I've expressed my preference
    and it's not yours. That's Ok by me. If I want dance "loose" I have other
    dances where I believe it's more appropriate. dance is personal and
    your idea of connection is different to mine. There is connection of a kind
    in every successful partner dance, it's tango though that's unique.

    That Ricardo Vidort video with Miriam Pincen always surprises me.
    At first sight I've always loved it and the music is my favourite version
    of Chique.

    I'd really want to like Miriam Pincen's dance, because I rather admire her,
    but I cannot even though she is really skilful. She has an extrovert,
    even attention getting, personality and from what little evidence
    I have she imposed that embrace. It looks uncomfortable to me and
    I know from experience that the currently fashionable head turned
    towards partner gets in the way of connection. It's a portrayal of an
    emotional connection but not the real thing.

    But no matter, it was a semi-choreographed performance
    in Ricardo Vidort's period of eventual terminal illness
    and he just loved to dance.
  11. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    or even El Cachafaz

  12. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    How do you know? I dont think anyone can judge from just looking.

    I find the stage performers do act out passionate expressions..but not here.
    She could be thinking about what she's having for breakfast but you can't tell from the way she's dancing.
  13. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    He was a professional dancer (performance artist), milonguero would have been an offense...
  14. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    It was a performance, Myriam Pincen seems a natural born performer.
    I've heard of teachers arranging people to have the look and the woman
    to turn her head including a well-known Argentine teaching in the UK.

    Now look at her posture, how her upper body leans away from her
    partner. Watch early on and see a gap momentarily open up.
    Now some will say that's all ok, and that's fine by me, but it means
    that the physical connection of the embrace is diminished.
    And she dances with a toned right arm. None of this was Ricardo Vidort's
    usual dance on a milonga floor. It was a performance.

    It is a tango look and show orientated posture. There are people
    here who dance it but I find it obstructive. It's personal.
    And Myriam Pincen dances that way on the milonga floor - but heck,
    she knows people are watching. You should see her arrive.

    If she was considering breakfast, she wasn't giving the dance her all.
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    ah i see you believe that a physical connection is a prerequisite for an emotional connection.

    I have experienced this with and without the physical connection, so i suspend judgement.
  16. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I think this discussion about emotional connection is getting absurd:

    it seems to conclude that if you perform you cannot have an emotional connection...

    What a wonderful Catch 22....

    So if you notice that somebody is watching you with enjoyment..then pouf! the connection vanishes :D
  17. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe it's true that he can't, while being true that you can. What I'll agree with, is that what one person can or can't feel isn't necessarily true for anyone else.
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    quite so....
  19. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    I don't see how you can draw that rather presumptuous conclusion.

    The point I made was that turning the head towards a partner is meant
    to portray intimacy or emotion but it isn't reality - it's a depiction - and
    it is unnecessary. It is regrettable that some teachers are teaching
    that depiction at the expense of the physical connection.

    As for real emotion and how you feel it is surely even more personal
    than tango and is best left out of this.
  20. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    A milonguera said to me a week ago how much she adores dancing with men who have a "panza." I agreed.

    Suck it in a bit and keep your partner in front of you. Tete found a way, so can you.

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