Salsa > Is Salsa becoming a Stag Dance?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by DanceMentor, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    There is a salsa dancer I know (and I bet you know such a person too). Many believe he is the best in the city, but the ladies I know that have danced with him for any period of time think he has a very harsh lead, and feel he dances more for himself than for his partners. When you talk to him, it is clear he is not a humble person. And when you watch him very carefully, you can see it's all about him, and it wouldn't really matter too much which partner he's dancing with. Is salsa becoming a stag dance? (all about the man)

    I might also reference how we talked about the top salsa dancers in another thread, and it took a couple dozen posts before a woman's name was even mentioned. I think that is pathetic. What is the World of salsa coming to?
  2. DancePoet

    DancePoet Well-Known Member

    And interestingly, when dance is being judged competively, they don't just judge the leads, they judge both in Am/Am.
  3. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Is salsa becoming a stag dance? I would hardly think so. Takes two to dance salsa, and although the lead can "wow" the audience with fancy footwork and sensual moves, it is usually the woman that outshines the man- at least in the performances I have seen(with the exception of Frankie Martinez because he makes sure he outshines everyone!). Over here there are as many hot female dancers as male dancers(AND instructors!). Some of the men I've seen, although they are very hot, talented dancers, can in no way match up to their partners who are quicker on their feet, more limber and VERY sexy.
  4. kdogg

    kdogg New Member

    Salsa is neither all about men nor all about women; it's all about both men and women. Good dancers are selfless on the dance floor. When ego gets in the way, dancing or anything for that matter, becomes unpleasant.
  5. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Hm-m-m-m-m-m . . . thinking about what you asked.

    Many of the salsa dances that I have attended . . . 11 females and 65 males. All the males dance like they have something to prove . . . like the #1 rooster in the barn, or as you asked . . . the top Stag in a herd.

    The males seem to be dancing for the other males . . . not for themselves, muchless for their dance partner at the moment. It's game . . . who can be the top dog for the moment! That's not a question . . . it's a statement. My observation. My 2(ents.

    I love salsa, but at present . . . turned off by it!
  6. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Good observation, Vince! (That guys are showing off to each other. I have definitely noticed that before!) In the salsa world in Japan, it is the opposite ratio with the sexes- way more women than men...
  7. alemana

    alemana New Member

    disagree about frankie. the first clip i saw of him i

    a) didn't know it was anybody "famous" based on the dancing
    b) couldn't take my eyes off his partner in the clip, nancy ortiz, who danced circles around him - and it wasn't even a performance routine, it was a few minutes from a social dance.
  8. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Maybe he wanted to let his lady shine! 8)
  9. africana

    africana New Member

    word! @ DM, Kdogg, Vince

    You guys address issues that have frustrated so many salseras to the point of silence. It's truly refreshing to be in a place where male dancers don't have peas in place of actual brain cells
    I don't even know where to start on this topic...
  10. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    This reminds me of how you described what you saw the first evening you stopped by the salsa room in Reno last year Vince. :lol:
  11. africana

    africana New Member

    Atlanta, Georgia...If he's well known, I think I have an idea who this is :twisted: have danced with him too

    Well I can say there are also women who use their partners for props as well, but the power to show off is not so much in their hands for partnered moves

    That's why I applaud women who can enjoy salsa without needing a male partner to make them "be"

    But on topic, as I've said before salsa is ruled by the male will for many cultural and historical reasons but it cannot be a stag dance as long as individual dancers insist on the freedom to express themselves whether male or female
  12. elgrancombo

    elgrancombo New Member

    I sure as hell don't dance for the other men. I don't give a frick what they think of me as long as the women like dancing with me. It's all about the connection between the women, man, and the music.
  13. alemana

    alemana New Member

    i was responding the explicit claim that F.M. "makes sure to outshine everyone" he dances with. not so.
  14. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    Maybe you misinterpret what I meant to say. He outshines them because he is excels in what he does, not because he is trying to show off. (I guess I shouldn't have used the expression "makes sure") I would never make a claim like that about someone whom I respect.
  15. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    :shock: I think I'm going to move to wherever you are! :lol:
  16. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    ...and I'm NOT! :wink: :lol: :lol:
  17. yola

    yola New Member

    yep... seen that and been used, too.
    and the ladies still dance with the guy, bc he has a 'name', is well known, his fame rubs off on them (english?) when they dance with him....

    i've fallen into that trap as well... but lately i refuse to dance with those guys, or sometimes use them as practice material (like: can i tune myself to his cues so quickly that he hasn't got time to use force) or promo material to show off myself (playing with them for the audience, highjacking them when they're too rough). this may sound really coldblooded, and not the way salsa should (imo) be..but i only do this with the guys that are using me for their own purposes as well...

    but when i go dancing just for fun, i do have my preferences!
  18. Matrix

    Matrix New Member

    for the example you gave, for the dancer you talked about, and only for him... salsa might be a stag dance.

    Salsa's constantly evolving. ALWAYS!

    Come to L.A. sometime... dance @ the Granada on a Saturday or @ Steven's on a Sunday. Come see a mini-world class salsa congress happening every week...
  19. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    salsa is cool

    some make it cooler

    some make it uncool

    just like any other ..or.. most dances.. except with salsa u have much more room for expression (my personal view)

    i dance.. i dont get intimidated
  20. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    I did some poking around on the internet for videoclips of salsa social dancing. I found, which has many many such clips. One thing I noticed was that the comments on the clips are vastly talking about the male dancer. "So and so has the MOVES!" "So and so is tha MAN" and then "oh and what's the girl's name anyhow?"

    At my club, the women are still shining. The men are gracious for the most part. Although there is one who dancing purely for himself, and everyone knows it. He has no idea that the women sit in their chairs after dancing with him and say "geez I don't like dancing with ***, he throws you into so many spins and turns and combinations I come off the floor feeling like I stepped out of a blender."

    But here in Iowa, anyhow, which is in no way a good example of salsa on a large scale, salsa is still a place where women can twirl and be sexy and men offer a gentle hand and a patient, passionate dance.

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