Tango Argentino > Videos > Jealous with deep respect

Discussion in 'Videos' started by opendoor, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member


  2. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    That guy has some skills.

  3. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    I don't do AT, so this question is coming from a place of deep ignorance :):

    I assume this is a choreographed routine. It didn't really look like lead and follow to me. The woman sometimes seemed to be almost slightly ahead of the man, in timing, rather than truly responding to leads. Anyone else see that, or do I just not know how to watch AT?
  4. rain_dog

    rain_dog Active Member

    No, it doesn't look choreographed to me. I've been dancing AT for year, and in theory I could lead most of those steps, although not with nearly the same grace and polish. They've likely been dancing partners long enough that they are very sensitive to each other.

    As far as her looking to be slightly ahead of the man, what generally happens in AT is that the man proposes a step (usually with his torso), the woman executes it, and the man takes his step once he knows she's gotten the signal. So the man actually follows the woman in many cases.
  5. rumbarose

    rumbarose New Member

    And if you think that's something, try searching on youtube for:

    Roxana Suarez & Sebastián Achaval en la Baldosa - Junto a tu corazón

    (the forum won't let me embed the video, but oh my goodness, talk about passionate!! incredible.)
  6. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    Waltzgirl is right.

    On some occasions she goes without man's lead.

    It's not choreographed routine, but since they are couple, and she actively listen to the music on some occasions she may go on her own.

    And it's question of style of a certain couple.
    Some do it completely lead and follow, sometimes leader lets follower some elements on her own.
    That's the beauty of tango.
  7. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    reminds me of a Zen tale

    Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: “The flag is moving.”

    The other said: “The wind is blowing.”

    A wise monk happened to be passing by. He told them: “Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.”
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi waltzgirl, in tango everything leadable should look like rehearsed. This really is a spontaneous impro, but, admittedly, Roxana will know some of his routines well.

    I can lead everything in this performance spontaneously, without problems (but I´m far from his elegance, shines and stylings :( )

    At 1:43 the people start clapping, because there is an unusual doubling in the steps of the girl. But it is lead very easily.

    In 2:10 a passage with rulos, enrosques and sacadas follows while Roxana walks bravely the molinete circle. You are right then, here she actually knows what will come.
  9. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    but the clapping is choreographed; but the dance is not ;)
  10. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    that was pretty seriously elegant.

    I agree that since they are a couple, and know each others dancing and the routines they have done so well, then they may have an air of "rehearsed" to them.

    But I can also tell he is leading, and following her in those instances like the cute walk around where she double times. He is a leading the movement around, and giving an indication that she is to continue with forward steps (as opposed to making a giro) but I think she was playing out the music as she heard it with the timing, and he followed her decision.

    For dancers of their level, he would always know where she was at, and because of the way the music was playing, and where he initiated the walk around, he would be highly unlikely to have ended it before the end of the phrase, so only needed to know where she was at that point to decide how to resolve it (at least IMO and from what I could glean of their body language in the video).
  11. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I didn't see that at all.

    Could you point out specific places where you saw this, and maybe that would help us better respond?

    To me this looked like pure lead and follow. There was one place where I wasn't sure if she followed "correctly," but it also looked like if she hadn't then he covered for her without missing a beat.

    Perhaps what you are seeing is the fact that the man can ask for all kinds of movement without moving himself? There is sort of a lead to move the free leg, which is then separate lead from the indication to change weight.
  12. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    oh, that would make a fine example for spontaneous communication between sensitive dancers. But I mean, I saw kind of a slight upwards direction in his lead. This anyway would be my signal, besides the prevention from the usual molinete steps.
  13. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I've danced with a couple followers who are just... incredibly sensitive. An exaggerated leading movement is just too much, all you need is a slight movement, which would be nearly invisible to an outsider. As for 2:10, I have been working on a similar step, and I will just say while I'm far from perfecting it, what he is doing is 100% lead follow. That movement only works if the leader and follower are in sync. It's sort of an exchange of energy. He gives her a little energy into the turn, then steals some of the energy back as she twists his body into a spiral... which he then lets unwind to power the next part of the turn.
  14. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    As expected I disagree. The order of the choreography may be not be fixed
    but these two are regular professional performance dance partners and have been
    for some years. Anything they do is to impress and they clearly have impressed
    many on here. There is too much about this dance to criticise to even start.

    This isn't social Argentine Tango. By all means learn from this but only if you are
    aiming to perform at or near that standard or know you will have milonga floors
    to yourselves. If you accept it as a performance dance then it stands on its own
    merit for what it is but please don't use it as a role model for social dancing.

    This isn't especially musical Tango either. For the first few phrases it is connected
    and they set the scene with a beautifully timed embrace to the music but later on
    it mainly ignored the musical lament that is Tristezas de La Calle Corrientes.
    Read more about it here:
    and listen to Libertad Lamarques most plaintively expressive version.

    If you're seeking "Tango Bliss" you won't get it with this sort of dancing.
    That's your choice. What's worse is you won't be in any state of blissful
    co-operation with other dancers on the floor either.
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    utter balderdash;1. there is no prescriptive way of acheiving tango bliss
    2. They know they have the floor to themselves, but all that could be done in a milonga; there's nothing wild or uncotrolloed about their dancing.
  16. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    I didn't say there is as there isn't. Chase it and you won't achieve it
    but you can provide the conditions and dance appropriately,
    then it requires empathy with other couples on the dance floor.
    Of course they know that. The point I make is not for others to use
    such a performance as a model for social dancing which appeared
    to be the situation being discussed.

    And not being wild or uncontrolled is not the only ingredient.

    If you want to dance contemporary dance influenced tango - or even tango
    influenced contemporary dance - that's your choice.
    They do it very well - they are professionals with years of full-time dance.
    Most of us cannot aspire to anything like that and in my view it is so
    dynamically different that it doesn't coexist happily with more traditional
    Argentine Tango.

    If you want some balderdash, in my view this is some:
    The contradiction of spontaneous routines! I've surely written in the past
    about the oxymoron of claiming that almost any professional pairing dance
    spontaneously. Don't be deluded by repeated routines, practise, performance.

    In real tango everything leadable should not look rehearsed,
    it should feel improvised to the music.
  17. ant

    ant Member

    I don't think that the routine was rehearsed specifically but if they train like other teacher/performaner couples I know of, they practice on a daily basis for a number of hours with each other so the point at which unrehearsed ends and rehearsed starts I suspect is a mute point.

    However the one thing that struck me about the routine was it seemed to be far more about him than it did about her. That is a feature that always takes the shine off a performance for me.
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    That is true of any dance performance....

    I would agree with that, but i would also say they know how to please a BsAs audience; showy stuff is minimised and musicality and the differing time steps, and the little fumble in the middle that they pick up seamlessly, just shows how good they are together...
  19. Madahlia

    Madahlia Member

    I rather liked that. He looked like he was having so much fun he couldn't stop himself showing off! And who could blame him? Except for John Em, apparently.
  20. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    isn't social Argentine Tango???

    Are there specific moves which they execute which are not used on the social dance floor where you dance? If so what are the timecodes on the YouTube vid?

    Here in the USA, particularly in New York City, most of what they do can be seen - maybe not done as well, but it's done on the social dance floor.

    The OP's vid is of a performance in Spain. This link is of their performance in Korea. Is there anything in this vid which would not be used on the social dance floor where you dance?

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