Tango Argentino > Leading - different philosophies?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by dchester, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Yes... But in a typical BA milonga, "moving" can be at a snail's pace and very confined. In the Milongas I've been to in the US, people want to do very large "stagey" moves and travel alot. If faced with someone moving slowly and intimately, they get impatient. Social tango was not meant to be like ballroom sweeping around the floor with grandness.

    There may not be any stoplights, but its not the autobahn that some people would prefer.
  2. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    And I!! I love your across-the-pond version of 'keeping my cake hole shut'! Cool :)
  3. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    I took a great class the other day where the whole time was spent teaching floorcraft. The instructor used taped and marked out small circles at various points on the floor. She also used objects to delineate a very small area i.e. much of the dance floor was closed off to us. When the music started, the student couples were directed, at various times, to dance in a fixed location (within the marked circle), or to be able to move ahead. Plus, the instructor and her partner started dancing, and purposely danced in an obstructive way. The leaders had to adapt to all these conditions.

    It was a very helpful simulation of a crowded milonga. Unfortunately there were only a few students taking this class. Naturally, the rest of them pack this other class where they are more likely to learn the cool, flashy move of the week. And then of course, they proceed to hold up traffic at the milonga while they try out the move. :rolleyes:
  4. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

  5. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    The answers is found in Regents Park on the boating pond; a man with a megaphone:
    In the milonga you need someone with a Gardel/Melingo voice bellowing
    " Couple with lady in blue dress Move along PLEASE!"
    Man Leading with white Tuxcedo, back in lane please.
    Lady with silver CIFs: Boleo violation. 2min40s penalty.
    Man teaching his follower on the dance floor: Yellow Card; final warning"

    Sung to Por Un Cabeza
  6. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Lol I like your idea.
  7. cornutt

    cornutt Well-Known Member

    Don't watch NASCAR much, do you? :mrgreen:
  8. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Ha! Don't watch much of anything; don't have tv.

    ...but you've never seen me drive...
  9. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    and... "The prat in the flares. Yeah you. That's the 3rd time now you've insulted your follower. Gather your belongings and leave the building. Now."

    I received an email yesterday from one of the teachers who teaches in North London. Apparently some major accident took place at a weekday milonga resulting in the callout of an ambulance. A follower got her leg kicked so hard (don't know if by a lead or follow) that it ripped into her flesh drawing blood. I told said teacher that I was taking part in a similar debate on DF re. floorcraft/navigations etc and I offered him my suggestion of how organisers of London milongas should keep announcing throughout the night on a mike the reminders to not do this, not to that etc etc. He said that was a good idea and that from this Sunday he would start doing same at his own milonga and would suggest to others to same. (Some "others" I just know won't) but yep, a start.
  10. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: Autobahn

    Hi Zoopsia,
    this reminds me when I first visited a milonga in a dance studio called La Yumba. I was introduced that there were three invisible tracks on the dancefloor round the columns in the middle like an arena. Slow couples should take the outer track, the inner was for overtaking and the space between the columns for dancing figures.

  11. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Fine. When in Rome...

    If you're in BsAs, feel free to shuffle along. Don't take those habits along with you when you travel.
  12. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    You don't have to be in BA to be in a crowded milonga. And the thicker the traffic, the slower it goes. (or should, judging from the crashes I've seen and the accidents reported here) And what about the older people? Or the ones who are learning and can't move with lightning speed?

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but if you want to see AT at a milonga move along with the speed that occurs on a ballroom floor in a Viennese Waltz or Quickstep, you would be missing out on the very things that make social Argentine Tango a different dance than the ballroom dances. There are dances that are designed by definition to zip around the floor. I love them. But Argentine Tango isn't one of them.

    You can always do stage tango and move as fast as you want and go anywhere you want... but not at a crowded milonga.
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... that's intersting.. I was always told that the tracks increase in speed as you move to the outside. Therefore the outside lane is the fastest, the middle lane slower, and the center, for doing figures more or less in place. That always made sense to me because why would you want to cross a fast lane to get from one slow lane to another? (of course, I was also taught that you aren't supposed to change lanes, much less TWO, during a song)

    More importantly, since the outside is the only lane where the leader in close embrace doesn't have dancers in his blind spot (to his right), its the easiest place to move faster.
  14. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    ...mmmh. Guess you are right. I never sticked to that rule so I might have mixed the lanes.

  15. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    Here I am with my two penn'orth a bit late in the day.

    In my opinion teaching that you just lead with movements of the shoulders is incorrect. Tango leading is all about using the whole upper body isn't it? I don't think I could pick up a lead if the man had an ironing board torso and was just wiggling his shoulders.

    Leading with the frame is not really 'leading with the frame', it's more that it's the framework necessary for picking up said body leads.
  16. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Who said anything about Viennese Waltz?

    If it's a crowded milonga, there will be no passing, and thus no one can complain about being passed.
  17. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe there shouldn't be, but that doesn't keep it from happening.
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to argue with you Joe. I'm trying to get a frame of reference for what you mean when you say that if you are being passed you are going "too slow".

    Without some reference point neither of us knows what the other means by "fast" or "slow". I injected Viennese Waltz and Quickstep as reference points for speed on a dance floor. I also said (and you quoted) that maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

    But I do have to totally disagree that there is no passing in crowded milongas. There seems to always be some hotshot who gets impatient about not being able to do their favorite stagey move and tries to pass when they really shouldn't, just as there are hot shots who try to lead high inline boleos when its too risky. Not everyone follows the "rules" or has any concept of dancing with "the room" instead of just with themselves. If that were the case, this discussion wouldn't have even come up.

    I don't know you at all, so I can only go by what you write. And when you write stuff like "If you are being passed, then you are going too slow" it makes you sound like you may be one of those impatient hotshots. I have no way to know how you dance.

    It simply isn't true that someone being passed is nessesarily going "too slow". The slower couple may be dancing completely appropriately for the conditions and the person passing is just plain wrong to attempt passing or any of the other things they are doing.
  19. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Once I'm gonna liken it to the highway for you. There's the speed that most cars on the highway are going, there are slower cars, and there are faster cars. (Well, not cars, but drivers.) When the cars stick to the lane appropriate for them, everything works. The slow cars should stick to the right lane, the fast cars will spend most of their time in the left lane. Where the system breaks down is when a slow or medium-speed car decides to camp out in the left lane. Then you get all kinds of stacking.

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