Swing Discussion Boards > Lollies

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by jdavidb, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. jdavidb

    jdavidb New Member

    Anyone have more details on starting and ending lollies? What more is there to know regarding what the leader does that gets the follower to nail the first kick and keep her from tacking on an extra last kick? I know it's gonna be back rocks. I'm just looking for all the details I can find on how it works.
     
  2. DWise1

    DWise1 Well-Known Member

    So far I've only encountered them in Bal-swing (which doesn't mean much, I know). Are they also done in swing and, if so, which form of swing? I'd be curious to find out. Besides, it would be an interesting variation to introduce during a dance (with a partner who's already learned them for Bal, of course).

    In Balboa, on 6 you start to open her so that on 7 you both kick through to the leader's left. Then you're in the kick-step-kick-step pattern of the lollies. And we're taught that it's a kind of scooping kick, like you're connecting your foot with something small lying flat on the floor and then kicking it off to the side (kicking sand is another analogy I've heard used).

    Then to end, on 6 the leader steps out a bit to the side with his left foot, thus opening you up to kick through on 7 creating greater tension, like stretching a rubber band. Then in the release of that tension, she turns and you step around her for a come-around turn: 7-8 right foot kicks through and steps down; 1-2 two steps walking around her; 3-hold4 for the turn pivoting on the leader's left foot; 5-6 complete the turn; 7-8 hold-step just likd the end of a basic, completing the move and you're ready for the next Balboa basic.


    BTW, I think I once figured out why they're called "lollies", but I want to check for sure. In "Wizard of Oz", the representatives of the Lolly-Pop Guild do a little dance during their song in which they do these scuffling kicks with their feet, somewhat like what we do during our lollies.

    Am I on the right track here?

    PS
    Hazarding a guess for doing them in ECS, I would think (remember, I'm of the rock-triple-triple school; translate into your own system as appropriate):
    1-2 rock step
    3 lollie-kick through with your inside foot (right for the lead)
    4 step
    5-6 lollie-kick step
    1-2 rock step

    And I would think that you could extend the move by repeating 5-6 as many times as you want/can get away with. But it feels like the next rock step would come after the stepping down in the lollie-kick step.
     
  3. DWise1

    DWise1 Well-Known Member

    Oh, and for extra stuff for the leader to do, you lead the twisting of her body with your right hand on her back, very much like in Apple Jacks or in walking kicks.

    When you both kick through, turn your hand so that she twists to her right. Your hand will bend back (or "outwards") so that the heel of the hand will be forward and the fingers bent back. Then for the step, you twist her to her left, such that your hand will be bent forward (or "inwards") with the fingers more forward than the heel. And repeat. For such moves, we've been taught that it only needs to be led more strongly to get the motion started, but once she's into the twisting she should only need much more gentle guidance from your hand to know to keep doing it.

    BTW, the lead is only with the right hand. The left hand needs to remain where it is in the middle; you are not leading with your left hand.
     
  4. LindyKeya

    LindyKeya Member

    If you want to see a video, check out how2dance.com . The video of lollies is probably in the balboa section, but it can easily be done in other forms of swing dancing.
     
  5. DWise1

    DWise1 Well-Known Member

    OK, I finally had a chance last night to try lollies in swing and thinking back on it this morning I find that I need to modify the guess that I had hazarded.

    In Balboa, we kick with our inside foot and step with our outside foot; for the guy that's kicking with the right and stepping (pee-pee stepping, as our instructor calls it) with our left. As I described above, the leader starts it on 6, but that's with a step onto his left foot (which is normal for the leader) that starts to open her up to follow on 7 with the kick (leader: with his right foot).

    So in ECS, the leader needs to step on his left foot on 1 and lead her to kick through on 2 with the inside foot (his right, her left). If he rock-steps first, then he still needs to step down on his left on 3 before kicking through with his right on 4, so to my mind that eats up too much of the move and cuts the lollies shorter than they could be. But let's step through it more rigorously and count it out to see what happens (something else I should have done earlier).

    BTW, I think that the first step should not be a rock. That way it's something different that helps to alert her that you're about to lead something special.

    Leader's steps:
    1 - step in place or slightly open on left
    2 - kick through with the right. right hand on her back should lead her to twist right and kick through with her left.
    3 - step down with the right
    4 - "pee-pee" tap with the left
    5 - step down with the left
    6 - kick through with the right
    7 - step down with the right
    8 - "pee-pee" tap with the left
    9 (1) - step down with the left
    10 (2) - kick through with the right
    11 (3) - step down with the right
    12 (4) - "pee-pee" tap with the left
    13 (5) - step down with the left
    14 (6) - kick through with the right
    15 (7) - step down with the right
    16 (8) - "pee-pee" tap with the left
    etc

    Now the question is how to get out of it.

    The simplest way to my mind is to rock-step after 8; because it's a tap with the left, your left foot is free to rock back on.

    But in Balboa, the kick-through on 7 (balboa timing, keep in mind) is kind of climatic, a moment of rubber-band tension that we release to turn her as we prepare to collect her going into a come-around turn. It seems to me that we should do something in a similar vein, but also starting with and playing off of the kick-through. I just can't think as of yet what that would be.

    BTW, I extended the pattern as far as I did in order for us to see the pattern and to help us work out the timing. To me, it keeps coming up as an un-normal count (I don't want to say "odd", because that would mean something different; the number of steps do remain even).

    One thought I had was to make the kick-through the beginning of a round rock-step, but that would throw us off by one beat and require a rhythm change that could be very tricky to pull off right.

    In fact, so far every move I've thought of as an attempt to play off of the kick-through has that "off by one beat" problem. Maybe somebody could come up with an idea?
     
  6. jdavidb

    jdavidb New Member

    I don't know anything about Balboa except the basic stepping pattern, and I've never even done it with a partner. I didn't know there was such a thing as complex lollys in balboa. Thanks for all the input, but I feel bad not having a way to do anything with it. I'm sure the balboa readers are learning though.

    In lindy hop, it's like jig walk except without kicks between the partner's legs. They're forward low kicks, indefinite count, alternating outside & inside legs. You can add optional, random back rocks after the inside kick, step. I'm having no problem getting girls to follow the kicks. They jump right in after they know I've done the first outside kick. I'm thinking that to start lindy lollys I have to make sure she stays on the inside leg after a back rock and use outside arm compression to make her outside leg sling out. And to end lollys, make sure her outside leg cannot kick by putting her on it with a more physical back rock. Those are my guesses. Anyone know if that's the way it works?
     
  7. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    This sounds like something I learned in a swing class a few years back, but never used. As I best recall the leader went back on his left as described here and kicked out to his left with his right foot, returned the right foot and then kicked to his right with the left foot and return; something like that and the tricky part was getting out of it. Am I talking about the same move here?
     
  8. bjp22tango

    bjp22tango Active Member

    I'm not sure, but I think the term lollies or lollygagging comes from the name of a prior well known Balboa dancer, Lollie Weiss. Maybe someone else can confirm that.

    Lollies are related to swivels in EC Swing even down to the lead with the right hand on the ladies back.

    They both start from a mirror image rock step. The only way I would differentiate them to the follower would be with a different tension in my arms (slightly softer for Lollies than for swivels) and the added visual of my kicking in the lollies to give her the idea of what I want.

    As a follower these moves both feel like a tuck turn to start. It is only when the ladies momentum hits the leaders left hand in the tuck, but is not then led to turn out does she know it will be something else. There are only so many entrances and exits in swing. The follow must get used to minute differences in similar leads that distinguish different moves.

    I once saw a Bob (double time swing) tape where the leader was supposed to squeese the ladies hand to tell her a move was coming :shock: :shock: :shock: I was speechless.

    Spitfire are you talking about a Skip-up? Starting closed position with a rock step the partners kick low toward each other with their outside feet, they swivel away from each other (still in closed hold) and kick out with their inside feet, and the leader pulls the follow in to him to kick again with her outside foot as he kicks high over her leg with his outside (left) foot. This again starts with a tuck position lead.
     
  9. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    No, in the one I'm referring to the kicks are not done towards each other and done after going into an open break position; first to the leader's left side where they are both side by side and then kicking to the front; the leader doing so with his right foot. Return to starting position and then out to the leader's right and leader kicking with his left.

    I do use the one you describe as part of a move where going into a closed break facing my left side I do two triples forward, two measures of pivot steps. two more triple forwards and then the kick steps. Pretty neat move.
     
  10. d nice

    d nice New Member

    They are named after Lollie Weiss. Skip ups and lollies are not the same thing, but they are similar. I wouldn't use the word scoop to describe the kick online, only because some people try and lift the foot at the end of the kick with that word. The foot DOES rise, but without a demo scoop could produce some VERY weird personal interpretations.

    I use kicking a bottle cap, keeps the foot traveling downwards and at the floor, and very low overall.
     
  11. Arnica

    Arnica New Member

    Lollies are entered after a "break turn." The leader will begin to let the follower out after 5, allow her to rotate on 6, and give a gentle nudge to continue the rotation on 7, kicking on 7 themself. There are no "rock steps" in traditional balboa-swing. It is a dance of momentum, as is described earlier in the thread above. Lollies, when done appropriately will not wrench the follower around but rather allow for a continued rotation from the turn. In bal-swing the follower holds on any change of momentum. The momentum shift occurs when the rotation is stopped at the end of the phrase on 7. The follwer can either do a simple hold, kick, or anything that is a hold off of the left foot for the count of 7 which is a continuation of the standard balboa pattern of step-step-hold-step-step-step-hold-step. The following tap-kick
    is a variation of the balboa basic in that it is a step-hold-step-hold. The holds are created, once again, by the change in the momentum indicated by the leader when the rotation in and out of the lolly pattern is turned inward and outward.
    Thanks, and enjoy balboa and bal-swing. It is such a happy little dance!
     

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