Tango Argentino > Miles apart embrace

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by JTh, Jul 9, 2017.

  1. JTh

    JTh Member

    Yes we have those classes as well.. But she never attends. Maybe why leads and followers are generally very comfortable with eachother (high level of trust established).
    We too have numerous types of social events and classes where people get to know oneanother. She just does not attend any of these.
     
  2. Reuven Thetanguero

    Reuven Thetanguero Active Member

    My philosophy in dancing and well as in general is to take the path of least resistance: in a scenario like this, rather than trying to figure out, influence, convince etc. I choose to dance with other followers where I communicate better and have more fun dancing with. When it's not an issue of values and principals, why waist precious life energy?
     
  3. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Any progress is good. I hope she gets there.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    We cannot do work for another people. If she is informed about events and still doesn't attend it is her issue.
    As I notice that she is making some progress. Tango reveals a lot of issues we are not aware of.
     
  5. ArbeeNYC

    ArbeeNYC Member

    Even in an intro AT class, a good teacher will introduce the abrazo and how it should be approached fairly early on in the class. Obviously, students respond differently to this depending on their background and the makeup of the class, but it's a key element. I don't have any specific recommendations for you. If you're both in the same class and that's what she wants, there's not much you can do about it. Lead her in an open "student" embrace for the class exercises. At some point she may come around to accept the closeness or turn to nuevo.
     
  6. JTh

    JTh Member

    Yes. The teachers do demonstrate both the open and close embrace many times. Different people react to it differently.
     
  7. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    You can go to jail for improperly touching a woman, 10 years or so.
    There are dancers who say at once, "I prefer open embrace." They usually disappear quickly - why would you try to do anything about their embrace if they will quit dancing soon anyway?
     
  8. ArbeeNYC

    ArbeeNYC Member

    I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to a teaching situation, as you can read from my earlier reply. Be that as it may, it strikes me as odd that someone would take a class in partner dancing, tango no less, who does not want to be touched.
     
  9. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    The question wasn't about teaching. A teacher doesn't care about embraces in a group class. He can care when it's a private lesson.

    A leader asked what to do when a lady keeps herself one foot away.
    A couple dancing salsa keeps a distance. It's a partner dance too.

    I've seen situations when ladies shrieked in classes. The teachers tried to calm them down, "It was an accident. Sometimes a partner can inadvertently touch your breasts."
     
  10. ArbeeNYC

    ArbeeNYC Member

    The teacher had better care about the abrazo, since it's the core element of tango. And any teacher who failed to explain it would be remiss. It's not for a private lesson.

    Salsa can be danced close, too, there is no requisite distance.

    As for your shrieking, I can't comment since no one in any class I've taken has ever shrieked.
     
  11. JTh

    JTh Member

    Maybe a bit odd..but I think she has some intimacy issues.. And she is using tango to get over that.
    I've heard people who have had psychological mishaps in the past that has turned them off closeness, and use partner dancing as a rehabilitation tool.
    She is making progress. At the beginning of class she was way way apart...now at least she is ok with a very open embrace...an embrace nonetheless... I and other leads can work with that.
    I do not expect all followers to allow me, or any lead, to get into a close embrace - by far the majority do however :).. Vice versa as well..leads don't always want to tightly embrace all followers...only the young, pretty ones :)))))
     
  12. Tango Distance

    Tango Distance Active Member

    Do realize, she might want to be touched -- there is a good chance this is true as she is in a Tango class, of all things. She could be lonely and is doing something about it. Conquering this could also be a step to a greater goal -- maybe she has never had a boyfriend due to the hug aversion. It could be she realized her hug aversion was holding her back in life.

    It's something huggers of the world don't understand (thankfully!). Sadly, a primordial fear of being hugged can be programmed at a young age, even with a single event. Often it happens early enough the person doesn't remember what or why, they just know they don't like hugs. It can be a level of fear comparable to being held under water. Avoiding hugs can be a strategy, but many paradoxically want hugs, or want to let their loved ones enjoy hugging them.

    Kudos to her for working on this, and kudos to the men patiently working with her! (BTW, you can't hug a nonhugger long enough or squeeze tight enough to "cure" them! Short and less close interactions work better!)

    As I have said many times, I owe the ladies in my area big thanks. They have been very good about respecting my space, but also giving some little nudges and positive feedback. My Tango-as-hug-aversion therapy thread is here: http://www.dance-forums.com/threads/not-touchy-feely.45840/
     
  13. SoAndSo

    SoAndSo New Member

    With some of the people in this thread, I really have doubts, if they know what a real intimate connection - not just a physical interest or a technical adjustment - is.
    (They remind me of the Bachata teacher who - in different words - told the underage beauty "you have to rub your titties on the men, or you are wrong" while every half brained monkey knew that he meant "I want you to admire and hump me!")

    I know through my background some people with contact aversion exactly as you describe. Half of them I know of to be autistic. They LOVE to be hugged - if it is done with real, mental intimacy. But most have been traumatized in their childhood, which leads to the believe, that they don't like hugs. (There even is a so called therapy, which mainly is forcing physical contact unto them, until they pretend to like it, to make the therapist stop. The victims relate this to curing a lesbian by raping her!)
    Some of these autistics belong to the most sensitive and caring dancers I know. And they are about the best to play the game of closeness and distance which I am sure, belongs to the skill set of a good tanguero too. (I can do that game within the close hold of a Bachata with ease.)
    Why so?
    Because "it is done like that!" or "you have to like hugging people!" etc never worked for them. So they had to learn to establish intimacy in their dance. Something many normal people never learned. People who allowed them to do so are lining up for them!

    So keep on working JTh. May be in a year, she is a dream to be close to. And remember, it's not only about fixing her, it's about improving yourself too!
     
  14. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Not true for me. My preference is close embrace with all.
     
    rain_dog and Reuven Thetanguero like this.
  15. ArbeeNYC

    ArbeeNYC Member

    That's not the way I learned and it's not what I experience. Men (even fairly young, in their 20s) will dance with and tightly embrace older women. Some men just dance some flavor of nuevo and never embrace anyone, even the "young, pretty ones." I am of the traditionalist school, in which the dance centers on the abrazo.
     
    Reuven Thetanguero likes this.
  16. JTh

    JTh Member

    I'm joking here hence the smiley face...
    We leads do dance with the older followers, and find that most of them are actually very experienced - eg dancing for 15 years..
    I've actually learnt quite a bit from them..stuff that hasn't been pointed out by instructors because they have many students to teach.
     
  17. larrynla

    larrynla Member

    It bothers me that anyone would suggest a woman (or a man) who prefers a distant embrace in tango classes has "major intimacy/closeness" issues. I can imagine lots more reasons for that preference.

    For that matter, I'm dubious about the suggestion that a distant apart embrace decreases one's connection with a partner. As with a close embrace there are pluses and minuses to each preference. An apart embrace, among other pluses, gives me and my partner more freedom to improvise. A close embrace means, among other minuses, that I can more easily smell the onions or fish that a partner has eaten before the milonga!

    Anyway, intimacy is a spiritual rather than a mechanical matter, born of our shared connection with the music, appreciation for tango, and the many personal cues every couple shares such as glances, smiles, and occasional words of appreciation. It's affected by (for instance) leaders' assessment of the likes and limitations of their followers, and their willingness to lead them in the movements they prefer such as boleos or volcadas or lifts.

    (Yes, you can do lifts on a tight dance floor. Here are some examples. Obviously some of them should be avoided as they take up too much space, but some are just as compact as most other movements.)

     
  18. JTh

    JTh Member

    That's not what I meant and the other posters didn't interpret it as you have either.
    What I mean is that I am disassociating the embrace from closeness /intimacy issues - not at all saying that if one does not have these issues, then they will be naturally inclined for a close embrace.
    There are many other followers who prefer an open embrace and have absolutely no intimacy issues.
     
  19. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    Religion. I saw an occasional partner of mine switching from a regular open embrace to a miles apart, arms-extended one. Even the teacher could not take her in his arms. From moderate muslim (not eating pig, things like that) she had turned into a more severe form. Hiding her hair, keeping guys at range.
     
  20. larrynla

    larrynla Member

    I'd suggest you not say what other posters think. They are quite able to speak for themselves.

    Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. Sometimes our first comments are not as clear as we would like.
     

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