Tango Argentino > "milonguero" website

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Zoopsia59, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I dont follow this. First: the mentioned orchestras also played tango de salón or fantasia, wether parallel or at a certain period.

    Second. I find that there is a difference between confiteria and club style.
  2. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    A person can use almost any name they want for a blog or website. That doesn't mean they are writing from first-hand knowledge or with authority on the subject. milonguero.org seems to fall into that category. His video examples prove that fact. Why does someone who includes links become an expert on the subject? This is a marketing tool for classes.

    Gustavo and Maria have found their marketing niche. They know that there are many step collectors in the world, and they have an infinite supply to share in their classes. Their latest advertisement in Diostango lists their classes as milonga traspie and double traspie at La Nacional and musicality at Milonguita. They no longer are on the schedule at Salon Canning.
  3. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Too bad

    Though there should be some milonguero followers around, no one did answer my question - too bad :(
  4. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I don't think anyone realized there was a question to followers in your post. It seems more like a statement rather than a question.

    I don't know what the difference between club and confiteria would be because no one around here uses the term confiteria. And club style would vary by club wouldn't it? Isn't that sorta where a lot of these style distinctions come from? The different styles from different clubs or barrios?
  5. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

  6. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    A question of style

    Milongueros/as would tell you there is no such distinction and
    no such styles - it's all Salon. It's modern marketing following
    the revival of tango that has resulted in the many names.

    May be Susana Miller started it by inventing milonguero as a style,
    maybe someone else did earlier but it's all irrelevant. Tango should
    be your own: the only overriding criteria are

    1. It appeals to your partner (it's comfortable)
    2. Your dance is of the music (fits comfortably with the music)
    3. You dance in sympathetic awareness of other dancers
    (coexist comfortably with others whatever the conditions)

    It's the requirement of No.3 that changes the leader's dance
    and some dance completely differently according to the conditions.

    There's video of Ricardo Vidort which clearly indicates that he danced
    according to the conditions. The situation of the space is unimportant
    (club or confiteria) it's the situation within the space that is influential
    and you have described both as crowded.

    Asking a genuine milonguera follower would also be a waste of time,
    as they dance with their chosen men in whatever way those men choose.
    Ask many a good follower in BsAs, porteño or foreign, and most have little
    or even no interest in styles, names etc. Their common aim is to be able
    to dance with any man no matter what his "style".

    Only teachers seem to care about such matters and you already know
    the reason for that. I'm more interested to know why it is that you think
    it's so important and why you think you need to know!

    As an aside: you describe Confiterias as small but Confiteria Ideal
    is actually larger than Lo de Celia and some other spaces. Other than
    milongas at Ideal, as far as I can ascertain there are now no other
    confiterias advertising public dancing. Ideal itself is in a state of sad decay
    and barely functions as a Confiteria in anything but name.

    There is a beautiful space in the the rather grand and very period cafe
    at Retiro rail station but they only seem to advertise tango shows.

    Finally there are plenty of resources on the web with a variety of answers:


  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Sort of following up on Zoopsia's reply to this
    Maybe it's just me and being somewhat literal minded, but I will often look to see if there are any question marks in a post. If there aren't, I'm less likely to repsond.
    I admit, though, that I am nothing if not old school!
  8. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    While I agree with you in theory about the attitude towards tango in BA and the way different milongueros created their own uniqueness (that being part of the definition of a milonguero, after all!) the bottom line is that tango can be danced quite a few different ways. To be able to talk about those ways, it's handy to have names for at least the most distinct variations.

    If you think about it, people's names are fairly arbitrary too and tell you little or nothing about the person. Maybe someone with the last name Jackson had an ancestor at some point who was the son of Jack, but as for any useful info about the Jackson you are talking about right now? Probably not.

    However, if you had to refer to this Jackson guy as "the guy who is average height & build, male pattern baldness, usually wears a cap and jeans", not only would it take a lot more effort to get your listener to know who you are referring to, but the description might be too generic (as in my example) to get you very far. After all, isn't it easier for the police to identify a suspect when someone actually knows the suspect's NAME instead of just giving a description?

    So I think it's important to have some names for tango styles. This forum is a good example... while we may not agree on every detail of what defines nuevo or milonguero, at least using those names gives a starting point for the overall technique and look that someone is mostly likely discussing.

    Yes, teachers use these distinctions sometimes just as marketing gimmicks, but think how much worse things might be if they didn't! Someone offers a "tango" workshop (no style distinction) and someone who really wants to focus on more traditional dancing because that's what there is room for in their chosen milonga goes, only to discover that it is all open embrace, high boleos, and leg wraps done standing in place.

    Or someone teaches "tango" and focuses on a particular style, never even mentioning that it is a style and that there are other styles the student might encounter, leading the student to believe that anything else is simply incorrect.

    The better dancers DO develop their own "style", but usually within the confines a a broader stylistic base. The different "traditional" leaders here each feel different to me as a follower and they are not clones. However, they are still more like one another than any is like the leaders who dance only open embrace nuevo to alternative music.

    And, just to be a brat.. I'm going to ask you this:

    If there really is no such distinction and Susanna Miller "invented" milonguero.. what is a "genuine milonguera follower" ? :p
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    My prof in Bio-101 was teaching us the characteristics of each phylum. Later in the semester he told us that a certain species was no longer considered to be an X, buy was now thought to be a Y. The moral of the story, he said, was that, "God made the animals, while man made the phyla". We couldn't talk about animals if we didn't have names for them. And so it goes.

    (Did you know that mushrooms are neither plant, nor animal, nor mineral)?
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Does that mean fungus isn't considered "plant"? I guess that makes sense. Come to think of it... there are probably other things that don't fall into one of those 3 categories.
  11. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Part of the the definition of a plant is that it has/makes chlorophyll. They don't, thus they technically are not plants. There are some other differences too, but I had to clear that stuff out of my brain to make room for tango.
    (i.e. I forgot).

  12. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Ah... a good excuse for senior moments from now on! I'll remember that one! :D
  13. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Fungi are a kingdom of their own now, along with six other kingdoms. (Look it up).

    Geez, have we ever been this far OT before? I apologize.

    Back to the topic, I think:
    "Though it is a fact usually unobserved in introductory biology classes, taxonomy does not represent organisms. Rather, taxonomy represents how we perceive and organize organisms."
  14. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    It's my thread and I'll OT if I want to!


    Is the subject of Fungus so far removed from Tango? I wonder.... ;)
  15. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    I think your comparison to people's names is rather pointless
    in the context of dance. The problem with dance styles is no-one
    seems to agree for any length of time though you would think
    would need some descriptions here. However my suggestion once
    that everyone who posted should clearly state their type of dance
    (open hold/close inline embrace/vee embrace etc., etc) was ignored.

    So we still read advice in total ignorance about things we cannot see.

    A milonguera, like a milonguero, is a person not a style.
  16. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Your suggestion assumes that the people here all have only one dance type each, and that stating what their dance "is" would be limited to that one.

    I think reading the threads proves that the majority of posters here each have experience, and possibly even skill, in a variety of styles.

    I also think that after reading threads for awhile, one can get a sense of an individual poster's preferred style; however, even if there is a preference, that doesn't preclude the poster from having insight into or valuable contributions for any other styles.

    Wanting posters to commit to one specific "type of dance" as the one they call their own for purposes of posting here sounds like a way to validate disregard for that person's posts on any other style.

    If one is familiar with a style of tango, it should be possible to read a person's posts on the subject and know if they have any real understanding of it. You don't need to see them dance it to get a clue of their knowledge, and "claiming" it specifically wouldn't prove they DO have knowledge.

    For the record though, I think I've stated before that my style is Tango Arthritico, and I've actually developed it even more since I first wrote about it. :cool:
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    So what makes a person a milonguera? Can someone who dances only OE neotango to alternative music be a milonguera?
  18. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    John, you missed the topic completely. I would not question that cited statement. But it could also be true that dancers in Cafes and Confiterias in that early times would not regard themselves as Milongueros. I dont want to talk about Tango de Salon, Im interested in the historic origins of the so called milonguero style.

    As a biologist I do know, but that statement isnt modest in some sense that you do not reveal your definitions for plants and animals. From DNA analysis it is no secret that a lot of mushrooms stem from plants others from animals. So, apples and oranges, mushroom is no monophyletic category.

    Counter question: does someone who is dancing enrosques and planeos a VU-stylist at once?

    Finally da core, but that was not the answer I was after!

    Brilliant reply! As far as Im concerned: the music rules my dancing style: Pedro Laurenz: VU, D´Arienzo: club-style, Guardia vieja: Canyengue or TangoMilonga,

    And now my initial question again: did the location influence the developement of the styles?
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    you gonna compare saprophytic and parasitic fungi?

    can we discuss lichens too?
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I think you get that title when you've danced a million tangos

    which is 333,333 tandas

    and means dancing for 44,445 hours

    or 1851 days

    or 5.07 years


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