Swing Discussion Boards > Most Popular Swing Dance

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Spitfire, Mar 11, 2003.

  1. HepcatBob

    HepcatBob New Member

    You could start out with videos. Which ones to get depends on the style you prefer. If you want to learn the original, Savoy style, start with the first one by Frankie Manning and Erin Stevens. That's how I started and it's easy to learn from. It'll teach you the basic steps and then you can go from there. There are others, but that one, I think, is the best to start with.
  2. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Actually Frankie's videos are great to learn the original form of lindy hop, and the styling if you are a leader. Erin however does not dance with the original styling. If you want to learn the original styling for a follower I'd recommend Ryan & Jenny's tape. If you want an excellent serious that has an eye to the more contemporary style I'd suggest Steven Mitchell and Louise Thwaite's videos. These are two of the best instructional videos I can reccomend.

    I don't know who is currently teaching in Orlando, but let me ask around and I'll pm you some names.
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Thanks, guys. I'll order a video or two to start. You know me, though, at this point, I see videos as a good tool to reinforce what I'm learning in class. Actually learning from video has to wait until I know how to dance. :lol:
  4. HepcatBob

    HepcatBob New Member

    Thanks, D Nice!
    Since I'm a leader, I hadn't really paid much attention to the way they taught the follower's part. My girlfriend learned from Norma Miller, so I never had to worry about it.
  5. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Norma is a peach. Kinda prickly tart, and hard as a rock inside. :lol:

    Seriousely I love Norma and teaching with her is one of my most treasured memories.

    Erin is a good teacher and dancer over all... I just think her classes lack humor and her dancing is too much mugging/cutesy type stuff and not enough dynamicism for me. These are personal assessments based off of what i liketo see in my own dancing as a follower and what I prefer in followers I dance with.

    Others love her as a teach and as a dancer, still others strongly disdain her teaching and dancing.

    Its a style thing, both teaching and dancing. Everyone forms opinions about what they prefer after a certain amount of exposure/experience. These impressions will grow and change, and evolve... refining themselves to you discover who you are in the dance.
  6. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Define the various Swing dances

    I know what the Savoy Lindy is because I wrote the only detailed
    descriptions of the dance in two of my recent books, and I know EXACTLY what the ''OLD' WCS is because that was the first Swing I learned and danced and taught at my Hollywood Dance Studio from 1949-1953.
    But will someone take the time and effort to describe the style and structure of these following variations of the Savoy Lindy so we all can have an erudite discussion instead of these gibberish nonsensical statements with no basic defining differences between these dances:

    Savoy Lindy
    Texas Tommy Swing
    Flying Lindy
    The New Yorker
    The Big Apple
    Hip Hop
    Joshua Jive
    And anything else.

    How about it, you closet experts. Let's bring some clarity to these
    discussions when throwing around these various offshoots of the original
    Lndy Hop.
    Black Sheep 'clear definitions are essential for logical discussions' Joe
    Lanza 2003 a.d.
  7. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Most of these dances are just off-shoots of another that haver been carried to various regions of the country/world . . .

    Since we're making a list of these dances, don't forget to include:
    Arthur Murray Shag
    Beach Bop
    Boogie Woogie
    Country Swing
    D.C. Swing
    Disco Swing
    Double Bug
    Double Hustle
    3 Count Hustle
    Kansas City Shag
    LAtin Hustle
    Le Roc
    Lindy Hop
    Line Hustle
    New York Hustle
    Prep Step
    Rock and Roll
    Rope Hustle
    Single Swing
    Sling Hustle
    St. Louis Shag
    Street Hustle
    Triple Swing
    Western Swing
    ... and many more . . . all in improvisation of ??? what dance(s)???
  8. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Vince's Dance List

    Your list of dances is awesome. Now we know that we will never be able to compile a dance dictionary defining all these dances. You did leave out the 'Dora Lee' I believe it was the first novelty dance preceding the 'Twist' by several years. I still have a copy of the dance illustrated description that appeared in the L.A. Times around 1953. I can dig it out if you are interested.
    How about one called, 'The Varsity Drag'?
    I'm still working on the Texas Tommy Swingout. But I think I need some additional information! I got the part about swingout your partner on the one to eight, turn her around and Swingout on the gate! but I always end up too late on the count of eight and fall on my knees. What am I doing wrong D'nice?
    Black Sheep 'It's never too late, to learn how to count,... up to 'Eight', Frankie Manning 2001 a. d.
  9. Vince A

    Vince A Active Member

    Was the 'Dora Lee' a swing-type dance or just a novelty dance??? I don't even recall hearing the name of that dance!
  10. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Re: Define the various Swing dances

    Point of order... no you didn't. There are MANY detailed descriptions of lindy hop. Interestingly enough though... most describe something different than what you describe... then again I'm not surprised either.

    That has yet to be determined... you seem to have inability to differentiate between WCS and Lindy Hop, constantly refering to some lindy hoppers repeatedly as WCS dancers when they are anything but.

    Actually some of these have already been addressed, and most of these dances have deteailed descriptions on various swing sites.

    Joe would you mind pointing out ANY examples of "gibberish nonsensical statements with no defining differences"? If you can't please avoid posting such ridiculous and inflammatory remarks.

    That said I will happily give a detailed description of the dances here I and others have yet to describe on this forum.

    Jitterbug Jitterbug is a term used to describe many a style of swing dancing mostly referering to lindy hop outside of New York gaining more acceptance in the forties and into the early sixties, a term which eventually became associated with a descendant form of lindy hop where the eight count basic was replaced with a six count basic (a derivitive of the jig walk). The basic is step-step, triple-step, triple-step, the partner relationship tends to be a "V" formation similar to the lindy hop closed position. The body posture is similar to lindy hop, an athletic and balanced stance, the lead follow is derived from the movement of the leaders center to direct the follower, the movement is grounded and into the floor.

    Jive Jive is currently used almost exclusively to refer to the International Swing dance style. It originally was the British mimicing the lindy hop they saw US military men dancing. The dance itself is similar enough to single step "ECS" that description of moves is unproductive. I'll leave the differences in body posture and movement that truely distinguish this dance to one of the international style dancers who will be able to do a better job than I.

    The New Yorker My understanding from Peter Loggins is that this is another name for a style of lindy hop.

    Hip Hop This is an entitre sub-genre of vernacular jazz dance. It is characterized by the use of isolation, cross and/or polyrhythm, and illusionary movement. This group of dances is so rich any attempt at a brief description would be more confusing than illuminating. If you are really interested in discovering more about hip hop start a new thread under general dance (since it is not a swing dance) and you'll probably get a better and more detailed response.

    Joshua Jive Never seen it, and considering how you named it, and have repeteadly failed to provide any details concerning I actually doubt that it is a seperate dance at all, but instead just one flavor of the modern freestyle or new school lindy hop that is popular through out the country.
    And anything else.

    Joe why in the world must you take this tact on this forum? A number of these dances have been discussed in detail... simply because they don't match your expectations in no way invalidates the statements and evidence that is usually presented when you try and dispute these statements.
  11. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    Verification please

    Just a late Response because I had a Long date with some nurses, but let me reply to the following allegations at the end of these paragraphs:

    Black Sheep wrote:
    I know what the Savoy Lindy is because I wrote the only detailed
    descriptions of the dance in two of my recent books, 'Lindy By Lanza' and "Strictly Swing".

    D'Nice Wrote:
    "Point of order... no you didn't (Joe). There are MANY detailed descriptions of lindy hop. Interestingly enough though... most describe something different than what you describe... then again I'm not surprised either."

    Joe Lanza's Reply, "D'Nice, Name one!"

    Black Sheep "Talk is Dirt Cheap, Verificatiion is Golden' Joe Lanza 2003 a. d.
  12. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Swingin' at the Savoy: The Memoir of a Jazz Dancer
    by Norma Miller, Evette Jensen
    ISBN: 1566394945

    Swing! The New Retro Renaissance
    by V. Vale (Editor), Marian Wallace (Editor)
    ISBN: 1889307025

    Steppin on the Blues: The Visible Rhythms of African American Dance
    by Jacqui Malone
    ISBN: 0252065085

    Swingin' the Dream
    by Lewis A. Erenberg
    ISBN: 0226215172

    Jazz Dance: The Story of American Vernacular Dance
    by Marshall Winslow Stearns, Jean Stearns
    ISBN: 0306805537

    Black Dance: From 1619 to Today
    by Lynne Fauley Emery, Katherine Dunham
    ISBN: 0916622630

    Oh wait you said one... my bad. I'll let you choose. All can be found in the Library of Congress by their ISBN. What is your books ISBN number so the people here can find it?
  13. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member


    Name Droppings like Pigeon Droppings are only droppings, NOT verifications!
    How about some Quotes from the Name droppings with page numbers and descriptions of these Savoy Lindy Techniques.
    My books have over 15 Savoy Techniques described in detail plus the Basic integrity of the savoy Lindy Hop and with illustrations.
    But you, D'nice would not know this because I can see by your spurious critiques, you never read any of my Documentary books, "Strictly Swing, the Dean Collin's Way' and 'Lindy by Lanza', and you obviously are questioning my statement based on what you have read in my Dance Forums Commentaries; and you are going by these few descriptions which you invariable mis interpret and mis Quote to suit your pre judged, preconceived agenda.
    So D'nice, Please give the Readers of Dance Forums the following information:
    1) Quote the Savoy Lindy descriptions in full;
    2) Give title and IBM number of book;
    3) Page numbers;
    4) and explain how they even begin the contradict my 'Magic Pill, 6 count Lindy Teaching Method' and 'Teaching Techniques' posted in this forum which in part deal strictly with the Savoy Lindy Style.

    Answer these 4 queries in sufficient detail, then you will be doing a great service to this Dance Forum, instead of cluttering up my contributions with you off handed remarks!
    Your list of books obviously, if at all possible, can give you all the ammunition you need to discredit my statement, that 'I, JOE LANZA am the only one to describe the Savoy Lindy Hop' fully in detail. I am so certain of what I claim, that it is ludicrous to think otherwise, and I will never divulge how I know the Savoy Lindy so thoroughly.
    I do not need to read the books you listed, because I already knew, taught and danced the Savoy Lindy Hop in detail since the early fifties and my 'Bear Trap Memory' of the Lindy Hop and the Flying Lindy style goes back to my teenage days to New York City in the 1930's.
    Black Sheep 'Adversaries are often your nost beneficent Samaritans' Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.
  14. Swing Kitten

    Swing Kitten New Member

    Re: Verification please

    This IS exactly what you asked him to do and this IS exactly what he did and more! Will you please BACK OFF!
    Just because the facts contridict your story over and over and over again does not mean that somehow every one else in the universe (including every editor from each of these professional, accerdited publishing houses) got it wrong! There is no sense talking with you Joe! You automatically discredit every thing that wasn't part of your preconceived notion with absolutley no bearing to the world of even basic logic!

    Even if D nice were to go through and give you the information that you now require of him (instead of looking it up yourself!) you'll come up with some rediculous way to 'discredit' these actual books. Do you know how I know? Because it is the same stupid game you've been playing for months! And I'm SICK of it!

    ..now let me begin with your last little gem of a post!

    When have you EVER provided ANY verifications of your claims? Please give me the thread name and page number so I can look it up myself.
    --this is how you treat the EXACT information you asked him to provide! (trying to 'discredit' the books now?)

    How could he??? These 'books' are not in my university's library or even in their computer! I've looked on Amazon.com and (suprise suprise) nothing came up! Don't go around holding people responsible for information not available.

    so... he has read the information available... you said so yourself. His 'mis interpretations' have followed an explainable and logical train of thought. These 'mis quotes' that you bring up inceasently and have consistantly failed to site are in my mind, a joke... one we can ALL do without thank you!

    :lol: to suit his pre judged, preconceived agenda??? :lol: and just so happens to have the scholarly writers and Frankie Manning agree with him!! It's funny Joe, it seems to me that the only one failing to look outside of his own little box is you.

    Cut it out with this 'for the readers of the Forums' melarchy. I used to think that you just wanted to spread the joy you found in dance... but the more I read your posts the more self-serving I see you to be. The viel is becoming thinner and thinner and it's losing it's entertainment value.

    REFUSAL TO ATTEMPT TO SEE ANOTHER'S POINT OF VIEW -- can't get more blatent than that! And way to go to cite your sourses very academically.

    Hard --- Closed --- and Rusted Shut .... yes I'd say that's a fairly accurate analogy

    Yes, please practice what you preach.... btw the whole quoting yourself thing is riding my last nerve!

    Alright I'm off to class
  15. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Cool. Thanks, d nice. I committed to myself that I'd do some research on this, and you've made it easy for me. Thanks, guy! :D
  16. LindyFlyer

    LindyFlyer New Member

    Thanks for the information d nice. If I choose not to purchase these books at a bookstore, I'll go to a public library or a university library and borrow them.
  17. Black Sheep

    Black Sheep New Member

    legitimate Verification

    Naming Books are in NO WAY a VERIFICATION of contextual material. How do we know what is between the covers of any book unless the appropriate responses are quoted in full from the given book?
    You may be willing to accept the unknown as factual, but my logic runs along a different wave length.
    When D'niice answers those 4 Queries above appropriately then I will have no where to go but to eat humble pie.
    D'nice made his own stew of CONTRADICTIONS of my statemernt, that 'I have the only books describing the Savoy Lindy'. Now if he comes up with a book that DOES NOT predate my publications, then we have to assume 'Plagerism'.
    Swing Kitten, I have a pig in the polk that I will sell you at a very reasonable price, but you have to buy it before you look inside!
    Black Sheep, 'Right is right and left is left and never the twain shall meet'
    Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.
  18. SwinginBoo

    SwinginBoo New Member

    Yet you seem to name yours for verification. Your books can't be found anywhere. I seriously doubt you are the only person to have described in detail the methods of Savoy Lindy Hop. If this is so, then why are there so many OTHER people in the world who know what it is? Did you have the pleasure of meeting all these people and handing them a personal copy of your 'book'?
  19. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Joe, you’re full of it. You are the one who asked D’nice to name a book, so that’s what he did. He just happened to do you one better, he named several and provided you the ISBN #s so that you could see them for yourself... which, by the way, is the definition of evidence in the academic world. The very fact that you cannot be bothered to look for yourself is about as clear a statement as possible that you have no interest beyond your own myopic view and agenda. Thank you for stating such so clearly, however, as it puts it in the open. Also, and as has been pointed out, these sources – unlike your “books” – have passed the editorial process of independent presses.
  20. d nice

    d nice New Member

    Joe a few months ago I would have done what you asked... before the Frankie Manning interview. The answers I recieved from the man himself, you immediately doubted. You went so far as to imply that I never asked Frankie those questions and had made them up.

    It is obvious to everyone invoved by now that anything that does not support your version of reality is wrong or a lie by someone trying to discredit you.

    I have done as much as I'm going to do to prove you wrong on this. I provided numerous sources for you and everyone else on this forum to discover for yourself whether I am correct. This way you can not accuse me of lying or misquoting anyone or anything.

    As has been pointed out, I did exactly what you asked, going above and beyond to make it easy for everyone involved to find the book in a store, online, or at a library. Having done that you try to raise the stakes... sorry Joe that dog won't hunt. You want me to provide an exact description and page number from the books... and when I do, you'll accuse me of lying or misquoting like last time.

    I'm perfectly willng to leave you in your own myopic world Joe, where you are happiest. My posts for the last three months have all been about damage control. I'm not going to let you rewrite the history of my dance. I'm not going to let people on this forum just blindly believe that what you say is the way of things...

    If you want to continue to post unsubstantiated, unverifiable musings go right ahead. Just expect me to be there to offer plenty of evidence from well researched, 100% verifiable sources, not for you, but for those that might think your statements somehow reflect the actual growth or development of lindy hop during the height of the Swing Era (which by the way every music and dance historain agrees ended before you ever learned the dance despite your attempts at claiming otherwise).

    I hope everyone has a nice day. :D

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