Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by kieronneedscake, Sep 6, 2009.
@#$%&*ing stupid auto non-capitalization...
So getting back to the original " Motivations for studying Tango Nuevo" question:
Basically, from our discussions, it looks like none of those reasons are valid. If this is why people learn nuevo, it may explain why they're seen as disruptive. Which, yes, is the "BMW driver" explanation as Heather said.
But from your other question:
We have a number of reasonable answers, I think:
- To develop non-progressive dancing experience
- To dance to non-traditional music
- To develop technique with areas such as axis and free leg movement.
- To improve our dance vocabulary
- To be able to "play" - for example, in musical interpretation
Does that sum it up?
Actually the BMW thing is my watered down version of a deterogative sarf-east London terminology used way back when to target a particular type of um...person(s). Insulting as hell..but funny.
Ooo, you're so un-PC, you are
Yeah - Audi drivers are worse in my experience...
Is a woman leading nuevo?
Originally posted by Dave Bailey
Originally Posted by Dave Bailey
DB does your comment on "play" equate to Kieron's comment on "the woman's personality?
Because I think you should not have included "the woman's personallity" point in your invalid list.
You must be behind the times; its thought it was the Corsa these days..
Yeah.... I guess the "play" thing is the exception.
Although I have to say, most followers who try to "play" in my experience mess it up, and they charge at nuevo like it's an excuse to lose all sense of connection and, you know, following...
So nuevo gives you enough rope to hang yourself with that way.
In my opinion all styles are demanding when going for perfection Milonguero no more than Nuevo, and vice versa. I would say that the basic intention of Tango Nuevo was to go where no on was before, to dance like no one danced before, to try something new. Since Nuevo isn’t around that long, it’s much harder to draw the line what actually is Nuevo and what isn’t. Some Nuevo elements sneak into other styles. Not only into Show Tango but even into the Milonguero style. (Look at the YT videos of Oscar Casas) While I like to play around with Nuevo ideas, there seems to be little use for them. For the Milonga they are to big and for shows many are to boring.
Right now, Nuevo has the attraction of being new. It will be interesting how much of it will be around in 20 years or more. Eager to “develop” Tango, many Nuevo protagonist god rid of all tango cliches: no evening wear, no traditional music, no close embrace, no traditional rolls of gender, no absolute determination of timing and lead by the man, no figures you can dance when your 80, no high heels, no fancy stage shows, neither pattern to dance in tight space. All those factors which usually draw people into tango. To me the end product appears to be the crystal clear, sugar free, decaf, lemon flavored coke of dance. So maybe we witness the birth of a new dance, like the beginning of ballroom Tango 100 years ago. Pure Nuevo seems to be for people who like the Tango life style, but not the Tango.
Of all styles, tango nuevo seems to have the biggest attraction on rude dancers right now. Since there is little specific Nuevo tradition, there are no common rules on etiquette, which gives freedom but also the perfect excuse for you to pass off ruthlessness as the final peak in tango evolution.
That's a very interesting topic. But this field is still new to me. It will be grateful if you give me some
more information about it. Thanks in advance.
If by nuevo dancing you mean that attributed to Gustavo Naveira, Fabian Salas etc. may I just say this is contrary to all the evidence I know, including all I've heard them say personally and read from them in interviews. The idea their nuevo was born of considerations of music is a myth that arose much later, in the minds of misguided disciples. Their nuevo was born of considerations of movement. E.g. see Fabian's seminal interview of 2001 on totango.net - he mentions music not even once, but steps in just about every paragraph.
Re: old hat
I'm not surprised. Who would admit it actually (and not to you, at all).
And, I did accuse Pablo Veron of dancing almost traditionally, didn´t I ?
I'm almost sorry this thread came back up, but because it did, and I can't resist a troll, here goes:
One can easily dance "nuevo" in amongst close embrace dancers without creating ANY disruption, and infact without even being noticed unless people really study what you're doing. I think that the issue is that those dancing nuevo in such a manner go unnoticed by those who don't get it simply because they are in fact NOT creating disruption. It would appear that for some, the definition of "nuevo" is that it causes disruption!
I can easily lead a volcada that you can not tell, unless you really look, wasn't a simple and very traditional puente. I can easily lead a colgada that takes no more space or time than a close embrace molinette. I can easily lead a back sacada that takes no more space or time than a close embrace ocho cortada. Etc, etc,etc..........
Okay TN. Calm down and take it easy. You'll probably regret this in the morning, and it's just a dance anyway. And don't you have work to do?!!!
I think I'm in love... *swoon* LOL.
I was going to wait till you went back under the bridge ... try to resist ... no ... no ... sorry no I cant.
You just dont get it do you? It's not the fact that you can do moves without actually hitting people that matters. It's that you cant be trusted to dance considerately that matters.
Remember - people are dancing close embrace around you. That means that the leader has a limited field of vision to one side. If you dance with energy near him he will likely flinch. He doesnt want you to go backwards. He doesnt want you to spin like a whirly top in front of him. He just wants your movements to be predictable and in the line of dance.
If you can do that then fine. But my experience is that 95% of the time that doesnt happen. And that's pretty annoying when as a CE leader you are doing your utmost to behave yourself on the dance floor.
hey well I'll be cheering you on if you do meet someone that good at nuevo..
No, I guess I don't get it. No sense arguing further though; prolly best just to agree to disagree.
Well what fun is that?
Actually, I think what the Captain is getting at, is that when you have one of these guys leading the swinging boleos, ganchos, lifts, and stuff, he might not be hitting people, because the other leaders are doing everything they can to avoid him. However, this is distracting them from enjoying their own dance. Sure, there were no collisions, but my criteria for success is a little higher than that.
Now if someone like TN can do his things and not cause a disruption, then I'm fine with it. The point is that no collisions does not equate to no disruptions (at least not for some of us leaders).
In all seriousness, I meant what I said about good nuevo going unnoticed by the I dance CE only crowd, especially when the nuevo is danced in a close embrace! And wrt trust, how can the CE dancer in front of me be trusted not to do an ocho-cortado that 1. stops his forward motion and disrupts the ronde, and 2. doesn't cause his follow to step counter LOD and into my space? Etc.
So lets pick one. Say a volcada. In all seriousness, how can you, without crawling around on the floor to watch what my partner's feet did, tell that I didn't lead a _very_ traditional, very common, close embrace puente?
Once we've done this one, we can go through the rest if you would like.
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