Musicality analysis of Carlitos Esposito and Noelia Hurtado

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Mladenac, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

  2. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    OMG (sorry)! I've only watched the 1st 2 videos of Noelia and Carlitos, and I'm already enchanted. That is what I think tango should be. It is totally involved with the music, and shows almost nothing in the way of "fancy" steps. It's just basic steps, done beautifully and in response to the music.

    Anyone can do this type of dance, if they just quit thinking about flashy steps and focus on simple steps, done expressively and to the music.
  3. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    This is what I saw in Buenos Aires, and how I (tried to?) dance. I won't go so far as to say I danced "beautifully," but this is what I want to do in all my dancing (now?).

    Last night someone raved about a teacher who built up a pattern, a challenging pattern, in her lessons. And I thought, no......
    She was talking about West Coast Swing, but it's the same thing, really, of doing simple things well.
    If I was fairly certain that there would be someone for me to do this with at local AT venues...
  4. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Some ladies will not enjoy this type of dance, but at least give them a chance to know it. Once they have realized the richness of this way of dancing, they will be eager to dance with you.
  5. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    It is so where I dance all the dances that are done at the country western venue I haunt two nights a week. Knowing what I know about who is not teaching what (I think you know what I mean, and, after all, that is one of the main reasons I stopped going) locally, and knowing how full my schedule seems to be with learning about music, the WCS roots project, the wetland restoration project, having been left somewhat cold by the new location of my old haunt, and being totally challenged by the Fake ID line dance... I don't see investing my time that way unless someone shows up wanting to get involved with AT - giving me a excuse to get started again.

    Well, I see there is a free lecture at this year's Valentango early Saturday PM.
  6. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    If I understand what you are saying, and I'm not at all certain of that, I've found it to be an uphill battle.
  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Nobody has taught apilado (mmm, there might be one - one of the lower profile people) for a number of years. The expectations of the women who were new to AT were in line with not having that training. Meanwhile, boleos, ganchos, etc continue to be a staple of local instruction. I took those classes myself, but decided that what I really wanted was more the feeling of two bodies moving together, interpreting the music.

    And, please, everyone, this is in no way is meant to suggest that you have to dance apilado to move together and interpret the music. I'm just explaining why I haven't gone back yet. Heck, I do the same thing - my best to interpret the music - in two step, night club two step, WCS, etc.

    "I don't write 'em, I just try to dance 'em."
    bordertangoman likes this.
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I've had a similar quandary. If you can't find the satisfaction you want, is there a way to find a different satisfaction?
  9. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I would argue that there is nothing simple about the way they are dancing. No beginner can do that right from the start.
    dchester, bordertangoman and Mladenac like this.
  10. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    The complexity is in simplicity. When you see masters than it looks very simple.
    It might look they are dancing simple, simple elements, but they are totally immersed into.
    Every movement has beginning and end. Totally into a dance and the music.
    Dancing whole music whith whole bodies is not beginners type of dance.

    This kind of dance comes once the dancers learn how to go with music and it takes time.
    And the great thing about their dancing is that is appliable to milonga (human like).

    Ocassionaly they perform some additional complex element, but they don't do it often.
    Complex elements are only seasoning. :D
    bordertangoman likes this.
  11. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    It's achievable after years of dancing on social level without taking gymnastic lessons. :D
    This kind of dancing is a way that every normal human without professional dancing training is able to dance.
    Dancing with a feeling and to the music. :cool:
  12. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    It takes times to loose the body and immerse into the music.
    Until then try to introduce it gradually, cause a lot of information need to be processed. ;)

    People came to have fun so give followers what they strive for and
    inject occasionaly with your extra spice.
    Once they got used to you will dancing as you wish.
  13. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Agreed but I think he was better with Mamie Sancy, especially for milonga



  14. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Exactly. Really good dancers are able to make difficult stuff look simple, (along with making simple stuff look special). That doesn't change the fact that a lot of what they are doing is difficult, (at least IMO).
  15. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I think we're discussing different aspects of the same dance. Their dance is artistic, expressive and nuanced, and that's difficult. Well, it's easy when you know how to do it. The steps they are doing are fundamental, which I would say are easy, at least compared to some of the technically challenging stuff we see more flashy dancers doing.
  16. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    Once I was at rumba dancing lesson, and the teacher said that it is better to make simple stuff nicely than difficult awkardly. :cool:
    And it is also important that by watching someone dancing we can relate to that couple.

    Dancers dance the way what they can sell, some dance flashy some dance from the soul and from the music. :cool: :D :D
    Subliminal likes this.
  17. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    I don't share your opinion.

    Noelia raised energy level quite a bit for Carlitos and especially in milonga.
    It seems that he is able to express more music nuances with Noelia.

    Is it cause of Noelia or cause he matured as a dancer I cannot tell.
    bordertangoman likes this.
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member


    I am inclined to agree. I watched them dancing to Pacienca; there is some complex stuff going on there. His awareness of her decoarations which are lighting fast (Nayla Vacca springs to mind) is awesome, his milonguero turns are flawlessly well balanced.

    Like el whassisname said; "a lot of stuff in tango is difficult and complex, but if you want to do stuff in a show, then you put in flashy moves which are visually impressive, but not really so difficult."
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member


    Nonsense; he's had to reign in his energy level. Noelia is a beautiful dancer, but I think she's a ball and chain for Carlitos..I don't think he's ever had any problems expressing nuances.
    He's had to work hard to let her fit in her decorations, which I think works fine, but at what cost?
  20. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    I believe that adaptions went both ways.

    I saw a few videos of Carlitos prior to dancing with Noelia.
    The decorations she often does dancing milonga is brought by Carlitos.

    Noelia seems to me more expressive than his previous partners, just that. ;)

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