Here follows a response by Judi Hatton to this thread, but also brings about some background and further exploration of timing, phrasing, artistry of patterns, and musicality that I thought would be best to start a new thread. This was a great read for me, and I hope you will enjoy reading it too: First of all when this stuff was written the dancers didn't give a darn about the "phrasing" of "routines" - they didn't dance routines, so were clever enough to dance to the music that was being played at the time. I can recall, as a baby dancer of about 13 or 14, seeing Peter Eggleton & Brenda Winslade dancing against Bill & Bobbie Irvine in final round of the International Champs in London, and when the music did something clever so did Peter! It was amazing and part of the reason he is such a legend today. Unfortunately, that type of artistry has gone the way of the vinyl record. When I learned to dance in London, this 8 count issue was never discussed, neither did dancers do "routines", and, with the exception of show work, competitively in all my Standard partnerships, I/we did not dance a routine, since such a thing was frowned upon. Of course we had choreography that we used and rehearsed, but any part was performed at any appropriate moment, and much of the competition work was just dancing. This produced couples with great floor craft, another thing that seems to have gone with the vinyl. I'm told that the issue of "phrasing" was introduced by dancers who were seeking to adopt the 8 beat count used by stage choreographers. The argument against that is that stage dancers know what music they are choreographing to, ballroom dancers do not know the music that they will get, and also there is no one else on the stage that is trying to do a different routine at the same time. Further, just as there is no credit for degree of difficulty, with the exception of VW, judges do not take into account where you are in the phrasing of the music, since, most likely they would realize that you did not know what music you would get and therefore cannot be expected to be on any particular phrase. They do care if you are on time! Additionally, there is no guarantee that you will be able to perform your 'routine' without interruption, thereby guaranteeing a problem. Hence my somewhat ambivalent attitude to the whole question. Back to your specific? The Feather Step stars on the RF - SQQS, 6 beats The Rev Turn starts on the LF SQQSQQS 10 beats The Three Step starts on the RF QQS 4 beats The Nat Turn starts on the RF SQQSSS 10 beats Many have 'overlapping' steps, not one has 8 beats! Therefore one might correctly assume that the fundamental elements of this dance were formulated to produce a seamless action not an 8 count routine! Whether using the basic figures or advanced choreography, it is far more important to produce the character and action of the dance and the excellent use of the music, than to be overly concerned in regard to a "phrased" (as in counts to 8) routine.