General Dance Discussion > one guys beginning dance struggles

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by wiseman, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. I agree with what everyone said about "not doing complicated moves" with followers who can't do them. I can usually tell the follower's ability after a few seconds of dancing with them. After that I will decide what moves I believe can work with her...
  2. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    The only problem with these suggestions is that it is a class teaching double spins. So presumably, the leaders are not only trying to lead them, but the ladies are attempting to execute them. How is the lady going to learn and practice these moves if the leader student opts out from leading them?
  3. Gorme

    Gorme Active Member

    If the lady cannot do a single turn, a double is not going to happen.
  4. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Regardless it's not simply up to the leader to "make it happen".
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    this brings me to an irk that I have about a certain subset of leads...there is a group whom I think view women as their very own remote controlled toys and they want to see what they can get them to do...and the fancier the stuff, the more their male ego is bolstered....the same sorts who got expensive toys at too young an age and promptly destroyed them in abusive, yet creative ways....women are not objects to be made to attempt things that seem like they'd be groovy in the man's mind... while I know that none of you gentlemen would have that perspective and I thank you for it, I think some men do fall into that category, however unconsciously... so I mention it here for whatever purpose it might serve to the great un-named void
  6. In this case I would still follow the class, but do it slower and ask the teacher to look us a soon as possible. The teacher should be able to see who needs the most help - the leader or follower (probably both).

  7. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    You know, my school has a special method when it comes to leading spins. Us leaders are being trained to be the ones to spin the ladies. The woman preps and the man physically spins them. Interestingly enough, when I tried others schools, they were training the women to power their own spins while the leader just guides them. So, my school wants men to spin the ladies, while the other schools want women to spin themselves while the man simply guides/leads them through the turns. Yeah, my school is notorious for having a more aggressive style of Salsa in NYC. Time for a new school? Maybe. But I can’t help but notice how amazing the advanced students are at that school, which is why I’ve stayed as long as I did at this place. Guess it’s something for me to think about. Heh!

    It's interesting when you see that different places have different methods. Now I know why I've been so confused all this time.
  8. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    'tis true, wiseman.

    with spins, between what a dear hustle-trained friend of mine wants in spins as compared with what my ballroom instructor wanted, it was interesting to try to adjust as per the situation. one wanted no pressure whatsoever, the other wanted continuous, uninterrupted positive pressure against his hand... though both expected the lady to spin.

    i've also danced with leaders who turn the lady... meh, it's all good, i'm not gonna bother making a case for it on the dance floor when everyone's just trying to have fun, anymore than i'd tell someone that speaking one language is bad and another language is good. it's all all can make for an interesting aspect of the dance journey.

    if i were in a dance partnership, however, those cues would take on more significance.
  9. For every move, there are two parts in play. The lady has to learn how to do the double spin/follow it and the leader must learn how to do it/lead it.

    If the school doesn't teach the ladies how to do their spins, then I would go to a different school also.

  10. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    I vote with Leonid. Purely from an "ability to save myself" perspective, I want to be doing the actual spin. Man-turns-lady IME too often turns into "man painfuly cranks lady around by the arm/shoulder".
  11. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    right...this is the thing, either the lady knows the double is coming and knows how to prep her body so that she can execute it...or the dude had better have one heck of an arm
  12. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    Just thought I'd post a little comparison video of the two ways of leading the spins. I will post videos of the same follower, but with different leaders.

    Here's a video of the owner of my current dance studio. Notice how powerful his lead is. This is how we're being trained.

    Now here's a video of another social dancer outside my studio that has a more gentle lead.

    I, personally, think the second video turned out better since it looks smoother to my eyes. That second video is similar to the style I saw at another school. The man gives a light clear signal and the woman follows it with no force from the leader.
  13. Ray Sison

    Ray Sison New Member

    Thanks for those links, wiseman...
  14. I think I prefer the second one too ...
  15. kayak

    kayak Active Member

    My experience is knowing both styles is important. With ladies that have a lot of turn training, I start the move and then I am the brakes to the energy of their turn. With other ladies, I have to provide much of the energy in the turn even if I prep the turn the same.
  16. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    I was just looking back at the posts I made last summer, I couldn't get over how immature I used to be. Of course, I still have a lot of maturing to go at my stage, but it's interesting seeing the stuff I used to say that I wouldn't dare say now. For example, in one post I said that I should be teaching my followers. LOL! I couldn't believe I said that.
  17. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    BTW, this was an Advanced Beginner class. I finally got promoted to Intermediate the other day and will begin next week. In Intermediate, they'll be doing no less than triple spins, lol. So, it gets harder. But don't worry, my school is very strict in moving people up to Intermediate, which is why it took me so long to get to that level. If a woman can't do a double turn, they can't move up. If they try to without officially being promoted, they'll get stopped. It would be interesting to see how many try to sneak in that level next week when I start the class. :)
  18. Gorme

    Gorme Active Member

  19. wiseman

    wiseman New Member

    Thanks, but I'm actually terrified because it looks intense, especially the footwork.
  20. Ray Sison

    Ray Sison New Member

    :cheers: to that! Your noticing the progess that you feel that you have made, wiseman...

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