Tango Argentino > Videos > Pugliese Tango

Discussion in 'Videos' started by barrefly, May 31, 2009.

  1. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I stumbled on this clip and really loved at. I would also appreciate hearing your thoughts on their dancing. Also, who are they? Do they have a website?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Evidently, it's called salon style salsa. Can anyone explain what this is? (...as opposed to other tango styles?)

    Here are some clips of other awesome dancers.

    Added: I think I am beginning to see a commonality in the dancing of Natacha, Andrea, Guillermina and Miriam (etc.). They all dance with their entire body and with exceptional skill. Even in the latin world....that is quite rare. (I don't even have to mention salsa).
  3. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    (My bold). It's Salon style tango, not salsa... done in Fantasia. Salon style tango is one of the tango styles. In this case, it is, overly stylized and exaggerated for show purposes only (Fantasia). There are several tango styles, Milonguero, Salon, Villa Urquiza, etc, etc, etc. Once you choreograph it for show, it turns into Fantasia.

    The first clip is taken from the show in a club called "Esquina Carlos Gardel." It's one of the stops tourists are herded to.

    The second clip is from the the 2003 Tango festival called CITA (Congresso Internaccional Tango Argentino).
  4. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    According to the caption its improvisational. I'll believe it. It's good improv (Not choreographed). The mark of really good AT Dancers. I've seen stuff like this many times before where someone picks the music, and they just dance to it. Most AT dancers worth their weight can do this.

    The worst AT dancers (IMHO) are the ones who can't dance socially and only do choreography. In front of an AT savvy audience, it become so readily apparent.

    They're dancing AT Villa Urquiza style. Its another style of AT popularized in the town of... Villa Urquiza.
  5. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Thankyou Ampster,
    I found this site that describes the Tango styles.

    I know I've been a bit of a pain on the board,....but as some of you may know, my daughter has danced all her life. I feel it's my responsibility to "not" decide who/what she will be when she grows up, but rather, try to open her eyes to the world. That includes dance, which she has devoted so much of her life to.

    My daughter is often asked what dance form she prefers. She will give her stock answer (whatever that is at the time)....but the truth is.....she doesn't know...or rather...doesn't care. At this time in her life,...she just dances. She has yet to be a dancer....and I don't want her to be, at this early stage in her life.
    However...she is very good at it...and I really am learning a great deal from D.F. that will help me guide her.
  6. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    You are most welcome barrefly.

    Tejastango is a good reference and describes them well. Note that when all styles are on the floor together (and done right), the distinction blurs. It all turns into "Tango" and just becomes elegant and beautiful in its simplicity... all of them.

    As for your daughter, your diligence and devotion is admirable. She's young and a good future is there, given the right circumstances. I'm sure you're looking out for her best interests, and I hope that the experiences here in DF, can be a "value add" to your and her journey both.
  7. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    Yes it's salsa of course.
    I like the "Hard to believe, but yes this is totally improvised!" comment by the Youtube poster. They're not doing any spectacular salsa moves, this neymelo guy must be very unfamiliar with salsa.
  8. dance234

    dance234 New Member

    that was one of the first argentine tango clips that has ever turned my head. beautiful.
  9. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I have accepted the fact that I am a newbie to tango and wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it bit me in the butt. Obviously, it's not salsa, so, the above comment went over my head.

    I know that I sound like I am a big salsa fan,....but I really am not. Sure, it's fun to watch Missy dance it, ...but that is because she is exceptionally talented at it. However, A.T. is very beautiful and much more technically challenging than salsa. Missy is pretty much topped out in salsa, but A.T.,...will probably take her many yrs, to master. (and her latin dance as well). I am a huge fan of A.T. and have the utmost respect for it.

    Also, the "Hard to beleive, but yes, this is totally improvised!" part also went over my head. I am wondering if you all agree with the poster, or....are being sarcastic and believe it's totally choreo'ed...or perhaps think that the dance was so simple that it's not that hard to believe it's improved, or that improv'ing isn't that hard to do for a well trained A.T. dancer. (I dunno)

    Missy started her "improv." training, and even with the few lessons she has had,....seems to be having no trouble with it. So...I am guessing that you all think that improv. is no big deal.
  10. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Appreciate that.

    The poster of the video is Ney Melo. I know him, and is a very well respected social tango professional, who tours with his partner, Jennifer Bratt worldwide. If he says it's improv, then I trust him. Here he is with Jennifer.

    (my bold) Improvisation in tango is hard to do without upsetting the flow of the dance. The follower has no idea what the lead is going to do. It implies that you know what you're doing. For the follower, it is her ability to follow any lead at any time, and apply embellishments with impeccable timing and elegance. Done improperly, it ruins the whole dance. A lot of it has to do with whoever is leading. There has to be a good lead, and an equally perceptive follow. If the improv is lop-sided, and only done by the follower, it looks bad.

    I assume that missy is being trained to follow? Right? Not just memorize signals... i.e. "if the leg goes out like this, you do this... when the foot does this, you do this..." IMHE—That's just as a cautionary note you need to watch for and avoid. Because, I've seen other "teachers" bill that as improvisation, when all it is, is pre-memorizing figures and patterns and billed as "Improv." I've many a disappointed beginning AT dancer be burned by this practice. I don't want to see it happen to anybody else.
  11. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Again, Thankyou Ampster for clarifying.

    Still, I wonder what "newbie's" salsa comment was about? Since newbie couldn't be a real newbie, with over 1000 post, me thinks there was a bit of comedy at my expense.
    I am drinking my D.F. milk and eating my D.F. wonder bread...so, hopefully, I won't always be a newbie.
  12. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    I think it's because you called it a salsa in your second post. Look at the first sentence.
  13. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    How embarasskin....first time I saw that.
    Perhaps a Freudian slip.
  14. shutterbox

    shutterbox New Member

    Why do say its salsa?
  15. shutterbox

    shutterbox New Member

    This is what I like best of Ney n Jen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elMyNZId4Zc . I actually like Jen in her earlier years before 2007. I prefer her movements then.
  16. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    But isn't following all about memorizing signals to some degree?
  17. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I suppose it could be looked at that way, on a certain level. I still think there's a difference, though, between that and what Ampster is talking about...but I can't quite put my finger on the difference right now. Hmmm...
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Yes " see my new book : Semaphore for tango dancers". ;)
  19. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    I really think there is a difference - leading is creating a situation where where the follower's next step is essentially inevitable due to the geometry and where her balance is and where she is being "pushed". Its like creating a follower-shaped space and she just glides through it. Following is more about being smooth and elegant when moving through this space. Kinda like changing lanes on a freeway - a good driver knows the car, and how much of a gap is needed, and can evaluate how other drivers can will probably behave, and smoothly changes lanes, while a bad driver will jerk, and accellerate suddenly, or be stuck in the original lane with the turn signal on. As the leader i am like the traffic - i create gaps and spaces to change lanes, and the followers job is to smoothly merge when these spaces occur, and not wait till the lane ends, or there is a mile long gaps, or squeeze herself into gaps where she won't fit.

    Of course this is very much the platonic ideal - by the time that dancers have developed this skill they also have developed at least some overlapping vocabulary, but in the end we should still be able to dance tango even if our respective teachers didn't teach a single common figure.

    It is a similar problem like when we call a performance completely improvised - yes, it is improvised, but a couple that has worked together so intensly has also quite a bit of shared choreography, which allows them to push things a little bit farther than pure improvisation would, e.g. followers can do a bit more risky embellishments because they can be pretty sure that the leader is not going to change his mind and take her out of it immediatly, and leaders can go for off-axis moves with much more oomph if they really understand how a specific follower is going to react to things.

  20. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I agree Gssh,
    Many/(most?) serious studios that train the young dancer do not see the importance of allowing the kids to explore/have fun with their dancing.
    Tech., Tech., and more tech. (including improv. tech.) The end product are these young, souless robots. :confused: The trick is to teach them the importance of great technique, but to also teach them to dance with their heart and have fun with it.
    Perhaps adult students/dancers that take their dancing too serious, may also have this sort of problem.

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