Tango Argentino > Videos > Pupi Castello - Gallo Ciego

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Subliminal, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kss3vPOqJ8

    I like the way he just seems collected and in control all the time, even when switching up the distance in the embrace.

    Also check out the reverse planeo at 3:18. :)
     
  2. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    It's a shame that the sequences take priority over dancing the music. I don't see any evidence of it.
     
  3. Me

    Me New Member

    This is a nice video. Kinda' figures that Alberto would upload that. :)

    Thank you for posting it!
     
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Agreed.

    (Don't everyone die of shock, now! :D)
     
  5. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    Fine whatever. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    :D Awww... *hugs*

    Hey, if you liked it...great! And I will grant that his control looks superb.

    It just isn't a video that spoke to me.
     
  7. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Though this has been argued ad nauseum, and I do not intend to expound/belabor it here, I must say again, that unless a dancer is simply off beat/out of phrase, we can not make musicality judgements.

    As an artist, it is easy for me to watch this video in 2 ways; as an onlooker (from a personal perspective), and as a dancer (from an artistic perspective). From this, I, 1- might have a personal way that I would dance to this music, but 2- can actually 'see' his interpretation, as well. Do I agree with how he is dancing it? Doesn't matter. I can not make comments like, "It's a shame that he put steps before the music, because, in his mind, (knowing this dancer), obviously he did not. In his mind, he is interpreting the music... as he hears it. Who the ^%#& has the right to come along and say that he is not or can not, b/c it doesn't agree with the way we would have done it?

    Let's not forget that dance is art; AT is improvisational. Both of these things are the very reasons we all love it. Yet, we all seem to forget these things when someone else performs/improvs differently than how we think it should be.

    Thanks for posting the vid. I liked it!
     
  8. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Would you consider it fair to say that someone's interpretation was not to your taste?
     
  9. Me

    Me New Member

    I think it is fair to say something isn't to your personal taste.

    Jan wrote that she saw no evidence of musicality; I disagree. :)
     
  10. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    well I'm inclined to agree with Jan but for different reasons; there are better examples of Pupi dancing; I just think he doesnt suit Pugliese or maybe the other way round.
     
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    If I watched this without sound, I would have never guessed that was the music playing while he danced. I would have assumed music far different from what the dancing seemed to indicate.

    In watching it with the music, I was left with a feeling of watching someone do something that was not his forte', either because he was trying an unaccustomed dance style to his favorite music, or using his favorite dance style to music that didn't speak to him

    Obviously as Angel says, I have no way to know what he hears and how it speaks to him. But to me this video almost feels as though someone filmed a dance, then set the video to music, setting the tempo of the soundtrack so that he was on beat. Occasionally, by sheer chance, the 2 meshed.

    This was obviously NOT the case, but that's how I reacted to it. So I guess you could say that his interpretation didn't speak to me at all... :(
     
  12. borisvian13

    borisvian13 Member

    Pupi definitely was not a rhythmic dancer, nor a dramatic dancer. So dancing to 50s Pugliese was hardly a brilliant choice indeed.

    But there is a whole bunch of Villa Urquiza dancers (from Portalea : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pORg6wxeV6Q&feature=related to say, Jorge Dispari: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkXloFaXcy8 ) with similar way of hearing the music.

    They don't really dance on the beat, they don't dance on the syncopation, they don't even dance on the dramatic development of the music, however I'm inclined to think that they're pretty musical.

    I'm not sure how to describe their musicallity, but perhaps one could say that they dance on the thematic development of the music, on that subtle, constant, but at the same time perpetually changing "floating"... I suppose one could see this type of interpetation of the music in classical ballet as well (of which I'm certainly not a big fan).

    Still, most of these dancers are wise enough not dance on late Pugliese:)
     
  13. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Your post, boris, is exactly what I mean. There are so many aspects to music, and music compounded by movement, that one person can rarely say that another has no musicality, or is not dancing a proper musicality, b/c one simply doesn't know what another hears/feels, or to which aspect of the music another might be dancing to/interpreting.

    To Peaches, yes, it is very fair to say that one's musicality is not; [my] personal preference, to [my] liking/taste, or doesn't agree with [my] interpretation. Yet, this is much different than Jan, or others, constantly badgering the boards with things like, "...so and so has no musicality...", "...it's a shame that so and so can't hear the music...", b/c unless one is an interconnector (ghost who occupies another's body), we can't make statements like that.

    To BTM, though I know what you mean, and agree that this is not his forte, or known for style. To say that he doesn't seem to have the same feeling for this music as a different one seems to, also, be a fair statement. But, to say that it's a shame he doesn't have any musical sense, or was putting steps ahead of dance, also, seems to be judgmental beyond right.

    The very essence of AT lies in its many facets, and non-rule, or nonsyllabic nature. We learn; improvise; and, make the dance our own, and, then, turn around and say that someone else's own is incompetent, uneducated, and shouldn't be done that way. That's just stupid. (know, please, that I am not speaking here of basic/proper technique/s, etc).



    Now, I said that I would not expound on this, and I have (to answer direct questions). But, perhaps, we should just let this one go... it seems that we are never going to agree, to there are always going to be those holier-than-though types making such judgements.
     
  14. bjp22tango

    bjp22tango Active Member

    On a divergent topic, it was interesting to see the dance floor was also a soccer "field"/gymnasium. I wish we could get our local rec center to allow people on the big gym floor but street shoes are strictly forbidden.

    I wonder what surface they are dancing on?

    Personally, I liked the dancing. It wasn't how I would dance to that music, but they were obviously having fun.

    How old was Pupi here? Because of the hunched back I'm thinking 70's?
    Man, I hope I'm still dancing if/when I hit that age.
     
  15. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Hadnt watched this till now. I can see why it evokes reactions. To me it was faintly embarrassing - like watching a grandfather dance with his grand-daughter.

    Still I agree - no point in slating his dancing just because of one video. Are there other vids that people feel give a truer representation?
     
  16. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Good point.


    [QUOTE-CJ] Are there other vids that people feel give a truer representation? [/QUOTE]That's what I've been wondering, too.
     
  17. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    They dance more to the melody (or lead), rather than to the accompaniment. It's simply a more advanced technique that people who really are into the music, will sometimes use. The lead (or melody) in a song is not always right on the "beat" as set by the accompaniment (or by the bass). Most intermediate dancers only get their cues from the accompaniment, but some dancers will also take cues from the melody, which is a little different.
     
  18. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I watched the video when it was first posted and did not notice any problems with musicality. On second viewing I see that he is sometimes off the music, but plenty of times he is right on it. Don't forget, he also has to dance according to his partner. For an improvised dance with complicated footwork, I have no problem with his musicality.
     
  19. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I will say that I liked the leader a lot more than I liked the follower. I felt he captured more of the "feel" of the music, than the follower did.

    Sometimes I feel funny criticizing people that dance much better than I do, but there were a few times were I didn't think what either were doing fit well with a given section of the song. The planeo he did at the end was one. While he executed it well, somehow I didn't like it there. I'll have to watch the video again sometime to see if I can figure out exactly why I reacted that way.
     
  20. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I think you are over analyzing his dance. I feel confident it was not a routine. He might have just thought, "Oh sh*t, the music is almost over and I haven't done a planeo yet, and the audience expects one".

    Personally, I'm not sure a planeo ever fits the music.
     

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