Tango Argentino > Videos > Pupi Castello - Gallo Ciego

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Subliminal, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    That post should be --but probably won't-- the last post in this thread. It's the point many are trying to make. We never go to a ballgame and say that we don't like the way someone holds the bat, or watch a tv program and say that we wouldn't have said that line with that inflection. Why are dancers so [:mad: can't find the word....] that we always pick another's AT to death b/c someone didn't do what we thought they should do; at a given moment, w/ a given partner; to a given piece, and on, and on, and on.........?
     
  2. Me

    Me New Member

    LOL!!! It would not surprise me. :eek:
     
  3. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Perhaps not, but it does seem to happen with other art forms as well, not just dance. Musicians (and non-musicians) will listen to various performances and make comments about interpretation. What was too fast, what was buried, which voice was emphasized at the expense of what other voice, what the overall effect is, what they would have done differently (or would like to have seen done differently). I don't know that it's always meant as a direct criticism, more that it's not how they envision ("en-hear-en?") the piece as it was written.

    I agree that it can be nasty at times, and that we should temper that. But I think it's because on some level we can do the same thing. (And, of course, open ourselves to the same sorts of criticism.) Perhaps/probably not on the same technical level, but the ability to feel and the desire to interpret vision of how best to interpret a given piece of music is not necessarily dependent on skill. Good music can inspire even those with no dance experience to move in a certain way--even if they can't do it themselves.

    IMO, to say "I would have done it differently, and this is how and why" is not an exercise in tearing down another dancer. ...but we (and I include myself in this, because I do forget at times) should be careful to make sure it's not tearing someone else down.
     
  4. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    While I liked your post, I must admit that I have participated in conversations about how someone held their bat.

    :tongue:
     
  5. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    hereis how I[/] think Gallo Ciego should be danced strictly IMO

    [yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xx3ErNlkh24&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xx3ErNlkh24&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]
     
  6. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    You don't think anyone with even a smidge of acting experience or interest does this? I can assure you that they do.

    An ex-roomate of mine who was a journalist would critique the newscasts of national anchors while watching the broadcast (and then he and a local anchor would talk on the phone for an hour evaluating them)

    Audio engineers may be the worst, and they don't even have have a good language to use in describing something. Two of my teachers were in constant battle over how to mix a show... one liked a full reasonant sound, the other a crisp, "bright" sound (that I considered "brittle" and unpleasant rather than crisp, even though he was FAR more experienced than I)

    I told a friend of mine who provided sound for a large outdoor venue that it sounded like a Deutche Grammaphoen recording... which he took as a compliment as I knew he would... but the thing is, I actually didn't like it because at that level of clarity, it lost any feeling of being a live concert.

    I'll alway remember a guy who came up to me while I was mixing and told me he thought it sounded "greasy". What the &$*# does THAT mean?

    You are frustrated that AT dancers are so critical, but in reality, they are not unique. It is YOU that is unique in NOT being interested in critiquing.

    Maybe its because you have reached a point in your dance development that you are solid in your interpretations and style. Critiquing is how many people FIND their own voice. By analyzing what we think isn't quite "right" about someone else, we come that much closer to understanding who WE want to be as artists.
     
  7. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    would that someone have been your wife about to bean you with it?
    :tongue:
     
  8. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I dont agree with this entirely; i choose to watch performances without a critical mind and let the mind flow with the dancers; (snake eyes as described in Little Big Man). There are dancers which inspire us along the way but there comes a time when we have to stop emulating and be ourselves ( and work with the partner we happen to be dancing with at the time.)

    although this is not the performance that I saw, I have seen Jenny and Ricardo dance twice in the last six months and they certainly have something..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyK1JIwTU9I
     
  9. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Oh, I do understand that there can be constructive critique, as well. And, as for 'my' musicality, though several favorable comments were made at the milonga last w/e, I am vetted greatly b/c I tend to see/hear/feel many things in the music that many dancers sometimes do not. (Peaches, BTM, and others, w/ musical backgrounds will understand this straight away).

    I think that your post, "... By analyzing what we think isn't quite "right" about someone else...", is the most basic point of my objections to things like the one by Jan that started this whole thing. Why is it not better to say, "By analyzing what we think is quite different about someone else..."? It would just be so much more of a positive growth standard.
     
  10. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    See, I'm not unique or alone.

    Ahhh....... :cheers:
     
  11. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    The reason I put 'right' in quotes was to indicate that it is not an absolute term but rather a personal feeling. It doesn't feel "right" in the same way an interaction may not feel "right", or a relationship may not feel "right" for the individual. Its personal and subjective.

    Notice I didn't say "correct" which is a more absolute thing.

    If a dress doesn't feel "right", that means I don't think it fits me or doesn't suit me somehow... it doesn't mean the dress is somehow incorrect, wrong for exisiting, or that it wouldn't be right for someone else. To say something doesn't feel right is ALWAYS a truth. Someone else can't say "you're wrong to say that" because it's stating a feeling. Someone feels what they feel, even if someone else doesn't think they "should".

    We are saying the same thing, but you don't like the words I'm using. Is not the intention more important?

    Or maybe I'm just not as eveolved as you, but if that's the case, then making me wrong for where I am is sorta contradictory of your point that: By analyzing what we think is quite different about someone else ...would just be so much more of a positive growth standard

    I'm different from you, not wrong for being how I am.. :p
     
  12. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Agreed. My post was not intended to be contradiction, merely an alternative mode of thinking.
     
  13. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    but I am a solipsist: you only appear to exist. I cannot be sure that you do
    therfore it is I who am alone ;)
     
  14. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    She wouldn't hit a nice guy like me.

    :cool:
     
  15. flyhere

    flyhere New Member

    Ah, but that's when we are not hitters or actors ourselves. Then we can afford to be the pure audience and not form an opinion about the technical stuff. Whereas in this case for AT, or any dances for that matter, the audience here is also dancers.

    I'm sure another player WOULD comment how someone is holding his bat, or another actor/actress will notice how a line is said. I look at a photograph both as an audience of the art, and as a student and practitioner of the techniques, and will notice things non-photogs may not notice.

    I'm sure the same thing applies to all art forms. (I'm sure there is an expression for this, can't think of it right now). I see your point though.

    PS. I am a music student and can hear the melody, each accompaning instrument and the bass separately, but still trying to learn AT. I have no clue how AT should be danced to the music, presumably one should try to, since I think music is the force that moves us to want to dance in the first place. The post about stepping to the melody/lyrics is very interesting, to me that would be the best way to interpret the song rather than merely stepping to the beat of the bass, it's very nice to watch when someone does that. The bandoneon or guitar accompaniment sometimes has a syncopation, and I see some dancers doing nicely stepping to that too.
     

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