Swing Discussion Boards > Question about this particular situation in WCS

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by Spitfire, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    In WCS it is part of and commonplace for the follower to move and play on her own rather than to always follow along with a lead and generally I don't have a problem with this, but I've danced with some followers who seem to do so throughout the entire dance and I find it hard to lead much of anything. It can all look very nice so I'm not saying that WCS followers shouldn't be doing any of this, but rather what can I do to best adapt to this situation? Perhaps this is something covered in various workshops and classes, but unfortunately I live in a community where these are not available since there is no dancing here.
     
  2. Dancelf

    Dancelf Member

    What outcome do you want?
     
  3. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    That is a very good question from Dancelf. So good that I'll wait a while before continuing with my intended response. :)
     
  4. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Excellent question and I look forward to Spitfire's response but - I got the impression that these followers are overdoing the "play"?

    So, does that mean, if you lead a pass, a whip, a turn, a sugar push, etc. etc., the followers actually don't do the move you led? Are they literally hijacking or ignoring every lead that you provide? Or are they doing the move, but with variations in footwork, timing and styling?
     
  5. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Yes, this is what I mean, they will want to do something quite different and do so from start to finish. I'll initially lead something like say a whip and they will want to completely change it up on me. I'm not talking about something like in a side pass where they will do a different type of footwork, but still complete the move, but something much different from whatever I want to lead. Now, I should say that this doesn't happen frequently, but every so often there's been those who will do just this. Now, is this what is actually meant by hijacking?
     
  6. MultiFaceted Dancer

    MultiFaceted Dancer Active Member

    As far as I understand it,The Lady can choose to put in her own styling or design to her footwork to the step as long as she finishes in the timing and position intended by the Gentleman.
     
  7. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    That's how I was taught, as well. That said, occasional hijacks can be okay, if the leader seems amenable. But only occasional, not all the time. If the follower is going to just plain ignore the leader, why is she even dancing with a partner at all? :confused:
     
  8. MultiFaceted Dancer

    MultiFaceted Dancer Active Member

    I wasn't taught that ladies stylizing her dancing making WC sexier would be considered hyjacking. To me hyjacking would mean completely ignoring the lead meaning timing and or direction since thats the leaders job-following doesn't mean making her step basic and or boring it means individualizing her step making it her own without jeapordizing timing and direction-She would still be folowing it would just show the diference between a basic new beginner dancer and an advanced dancer. I have been explained that once we learn the rules we could bend them later on.
     
  9. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Hopefully no misunderstanding here - that's exactly what I am saying, too. Styling is not hijacking. Taking a move and turning it into a different move is hijacking - and that, too, is okay on a few occasions, just not all the time, and should only be done by followers who know what they're doing, and only with leaders who are comfortable with it.
     
  10. Zhena

    Zhena Well-Known Member

    Agreeing with MultiFaceted Dancer and jennyisdancing, I have been taught that a follower can hijack only when she is confident the leader is comfortable with it ... and only when he is not actively leading something. This goes along with the concept of "active" vs. "passive" movements. For example, the start of a sugar push is "active" because the leader is directing the direction and speed of the follower's movement. Therefore the follower may NOT hijack at that point.
     
  11. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    I completely agree. One of the great things with swing dances (and most other partner dances) is the connection that comes from good leading and following. It can give such a wonderful feel.

    Whenever a follower hijacks, she breaks that connection. That's ok and can be fun, but only when it happens now and then. If it happens all the time, the follower is no longer dancing with her partner but only using him to show off her self.

    If your lead is good (i.e relaxed, clear and not forceful) there should be plenty of opportunity for a follower to improvise and add styling without hijacking.

    One way to adapt is to lead simple and basic patterns and give the follower room to play. Or you may play along, using her improvisations for inspiration. If you don't feel she is hijacking too much, but like the way she's dancing and playing, show it. Smile, go "wow", cheer or whatever fits your way of communicating "you look great".

    If you feel she is not dancing with you, but hijacking and taking the fun out of the dance, don't encourage. I would personally handle this by suffering through the rest of the song, say bye and never ask her for another dance. There are too many partners out there that are fun to dance with to waste time on those who are not interested in dancing with me.
     
  12. utahswestcoastswing

    utahswestcoastswing New Member

    I agree with this. I had an instance at a WCS convention where I had a follow who was doing her own thing. I tried leading the simplest of patterns and was not able to get any partnership whatsoever. I just bared with the dance, thanked her for the time, and moved on.

    I think building a partnership in WCS is crucial to having a good dance. There are opportunities to accentuate the dance, both for leaders and followers, but abuse of this makes the dance very one-sided and not very fun.
     
  13. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Well-Known Member

    Maybe I have a different definition of hijack, but I think the connection remains even during hijacking. It's just been reversed. :)
     
  14. MultiFaceted Dancer

    MultiFaceted Dancer Active Member

    I was pretty sure we were on the same page just wanted to clarify
    my answer Didn't mean it to sound harsh
     
  15. MultiFaceted Dancer

    MultiFaceted Dancer Active Member

    I also agree with this way of thinking. The connection exists but the outcome of the way the particular steps looks or feels is whats different not timing but outcome. My example besides footwork is that instead of one turn than an anchor step and then moving forward on a walk, I can do a triple turn keeping the timimg and then walk forward. That could in essense be considered hyjacking but after the guy knows i can do it then he will usually lead it that way knowing that I like to turn and or spin multiple times and capable of doing so on balance and on time. Same timimg, same connection, different outcome or look.
     
  16. Flat Shoes

    Flat Shoes New Member

    Hijacking can be used intentionally as a variation and playing with your partner. Or it can be done unintentionally by someone not following and just doing her own stuff.

    If the follower for example is taking over the leaders role for a short time, connection of course needs to be maintained. If the follower is just not following, but for example move in a different direction, or stopping when not supposed to, it will in general break the connection as a result.
     
  17. Silveralsa

    Silveralsa New Member

    I think a follower should have the freedom to play in stylizing the moves led by the leader. While playing around with a surprise or two is ok (depending relationship between dance couple), it should not be done more than that. I'll confess I've been guilty of that before and didn't realize what I was doing until AFTER the dance was over. I rarely find a guy that really lets me play and give me the time/room to do so in my styling. One of my favorite leads lets me play to my hearts content and plays right back off of me. I feel like we're actually having a "flirting conversation" through the dance itself, and I love it. Unfortunately, just this last week I realized I'd gotten carried away in my excitement and hijacked more than really played.

    So, first, it might be possibly a compliment that the follower feels so comfortable being able to creatively express herself while dancing with you. So, if it's an occassional thing that happens (not regularly), don't come down on her. However, if it's a pattern and you have friendship enough, I'd say something in a kind non-judgment/critical way :)
     
  18. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Well-Known Member

    Gotcha. I think we're in agreement. :)
     
  19. Terpsichorean Clod

    Terpsichorean Clod Well-Known Member

    Wanna dance? ;) I'd love to share the control 50/50 (maybe even more) with a "follower".
     
  20. Silveralsa

    Silveralsa New Member

    LOL... thanks, I think... I wouldn't call it control, for I still want the guy to lead, I just want to be able to actual respond like a conversation with my styling. Often the guy can lead so many moves in such a way that you can't even style what you're doing, but just follow the move. I want to express my heart, not be some broom being used to execute a series of moves... ok, so this is a big point for me... LOL
     

Share This Page