Salsa > Question for the ladies

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by BugBear, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    all the same, you'd probably be surprised by just how much work goes into that on the dance floor. Most guys spend a lot of time making sure their partners are not getting stepped on, have enough room, are safe from all of the people around them.
  2. RugKutta

    RugKutta New Member

    I actually agree with you comepletely on this one! It can be a difficult task at times, trying to keep you and your partner safe on the dancefloor. Sometimes I think I overdo it beacause my dancing suffers for it. Sometimes when the floor is crowded I end up trying to keep from bumping other people so much that I limit myself to the same handful of basic moves. I think to myself, "dang, am I the only one who's not going all out right now? Everybody else is pulling out their good stuff but me...."

    Then again, other times it's kinda fun......I end up "saving" my partners from dancefloor crashes so many times in one night it becomes an art. Almost like those "saves" are moves in and of themselves. Heck, sometimes I do moves by accident as saves that I couldn't do on purpose otherwise.
  3. BugBear

    BugBear New Member

    Me too!
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to dispute a man being "protective" on the dance floor. Personally, I don't like that word because, to me, it connotes a degree of paternalism. I prefer leads who are considerate and responsible. Although to be fair, I spend a fair bit of that as a follow as well, by watching over my partner's shoulder and alerting him to things he can't see. Not as much as a lead, obviously, but I don't absolve myself of all responsiblity just because I'm a woman follower.

    But from your post, which I quoted above, I didn't get the impression the conversation was about leads' behavior on the floor, but, rather, how you like to feel as a man in general. And, from your description, that's very old fasioned.
  5. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    well, I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about what interaction is appropriate in the context of partner dance without reognizing that the dance floor is where most of that interaction takes place. What happens "off the floor" is primarily important for setting the stage for what happens "on the floor".

    apologies if that wasn't clear.
  6. amrimi

    amrimi New Member

    Other, then a friend asking me to dance with someone whom he brought along and who is new to salsa/the scene, that is the surest thing to get a rejection from me. If someone I don't know comes up to me and ask me to dance with somebody else I always think "Isn't he grown up enough to ask for himself?".
  7. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    how about avoid asking altogether.. send an email or sms the previous night eh..?
  8. Twilight_Elena

    Twilight_Elena Well-Known Member

    See now, if we all could just listen to Sabor's advice the world would be a better place. :lol:

    Twilight Elena
  9. BugBear

    BugBear New Member

    Actually I've tought about sending an sms as ан invitаtion. It sounds fun but I never really got around to actually sending one :)
  10. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    Isn't he grown up enough to ask for himself?

    If you are out with a "friend", you can easily get stuck where you would like to dance with other people .... but ... (the guy) doesn't feel comfortable leaving the girl alone to ask someone else to dance, and (the girl) isn't being asked as she is percieved as being "with" a guy. The easiest way to break out of this (as either person) is to introduce your friend to someone else and tell them to dance.

    (This also is a -very- effective way at cutting in, if you want a dance with someone specific... use your "friend" to distract the person they are currently dancing with. hehe.)
  11. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    (Wonders about the odds of getting someone who can dance as you SMS random people the night before...) its kind of a funny suggestion in a thread about asking people you have never met before to dance... (grins)
  12. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    I'm finding it weird that a woman asking you to dance is what would hurt your ego. I understand what you're saying, but all those rules are so reminiscent of "The Rules" and all those other games people play in relationships. Can't we escape that on the dance floor?

    Edited because my own issues made my reply overly mean and attacking.
  13. africana

    africana New Member

    well said wooh, rugKutta, and many many others

    undoubtedly if one lives life by manipulative underhanded rules, I can see how such an individual would seek to control all variables and people around them by rationalizing these self-protective extremely-caveated rules that only exist to preserve fragile egos
  14. BugBear

    BugBear New Member

    Note to self: Keep this in mind :)
  15. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    I don't think you can, but I don't think you are looking at it the right way; I think you have it all backwards.

    First, its the fact that -he- is not asking that I think the problem comes in. The woman can, and usually does, initiate things in one way or another; it should be done in such a way that requires an additional action from the man, not just a response. The woman asking you something is not the problem... its the nature of the response that the question requires. That's why a question like "why don't you ask me to dance sometime?" is appropriate, where as "would you like to dance?" is not, despite being virtually identical in terms of information content and result.

    Second, I don't know if you can as easily group "relationships" into a set of "rules"; although I can see the market there, I think there is a natural desire to take a chaotic situation and try to organize it, and people will pay to have that done for them.

    On the other hand, I think "rules" are very applicable to partner dancing; which is at its heart a very structured (and, to an extent, formalized) way of interacting. That interaction is focused on the dance floor, but what happens off the floor is an important part of it as well.

    To that extent dancing is like "dating with training wheels", its got more structure, more 'rules'... and some of the principles those rules are based on are broadly applicable to 'relationships'. I'm not sure the opposite is true.

    I think you'd be better off asking "Can we please leave 'The Rules' on the dance floor and escape them in our relationships?"

    Incidently, I think "Rules" is the wrong word, has the wrong connotations. You are really looking at a couple very simple "Principles", applied to different situations. If you focus on "rules" rather than "principles", you are going to get confused with special case logic and exceptions. Continually focusing on "rules" rather than "principles" is only useful if you want people to be confused.
  16. africana

    africana New Member

    yeah we're all confused :arrow:
  17. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    or hey.. how about holding a sign over your head saying..

    ''if u ask me to dance first, i'll give u a dollar''..?
  18. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    ^^I'm so definitely doing that next time I go dancing!!^^
  19. AzureDreamer

    AzureDreamer New Member

    haha... I have CHARGED money for people to dance with me.

    Its actually a really cute way to raise money / awareness for a charity. Get a bunch of people (like from work, family, neighbors, etc) to "match" whatever you earn, then when you go out and have the DJ announce what is going on... have someone from the charity on hand to sell tickets in return for donations, distribute info, etc.

    If they put their name down, you send people a 'leaflet' describing what happened and where the money went. (I've done it a couple times for a local animal shelter... its very satisfying when you hear that 10 people came in and adopted a pet because they heard about it at the club.)
  20. englezul

    englezul New Member

    It's funny how this topic generated so much debate. I can't even begin to understand why someone worries about things like this. In terms of taking up on the offer I just do what I feel like, but the invite in itself I consider to be a compliment. So far I've always accepted, and I do gladly, even if they're complete beginners I use the time to practice my leading.

    I think the real issue at stake is that some people are uncomfortable with saying no, and I might even dare to suggest it's because they're uncomfortable with hearing it. Thus, whenever they are asked by some stranger or someone they're not particularly fond of, they feel trapped into saying yes, not wanting to appear like a jackass. So they get frustrated with being invited because they are unable to reject someone without feeling guilty/bad/etc over it.

    Someone was saying that women in the clubs have all the power. Some do. In my opinion I think it's the absolute opposite. I see this all the time and it's happening for multiple reasons. One is that the role of the follower is passive. The lead provides the entertainment and the follower has no choice in what will happen on the dance floor. I guess they could break away in shines whenever they want to but that's bending the rules IMO. Other is that women are socially conditioned to wait for being asked. I always see women waiting on the side of the dancefloor, song after song after song, and leave at the end of the night having danced a total of 30 mins, while having wasted 4 hours. Whereas I dance whenever I want to because I hold the entertainment.

    So do the math, if you're paying 10 dollars to get in + effort in getting yourself fixed up, why would you do that for a couple of hours of ...nothing. Ladies, please ask. It's good for you, you dance more, you get better :arrow: it's good for the salsa scene, and it builds character. I have to admit it, it sucks putting yourself out there, but after a while you won't have to do it anymore. People will seek you out.

    Another thought about the people who find themselves waiting for an opportunity to dance. Develop relationships. Be social, if you're not dancing then talk to somebody. Anybody. I never see people doing this. I make a point in befriending everybody (at least everybody I'm interested in dancing with :cool: ).

    In a short little while you won't have a second to rest
    if not because you turned 70% of the club regulars into friends, then because more people will feel comfortable with asking you.

    About The Rules. I mean that sort of thing will always exist, in fact they are not machinations they're just rationalizations of diverse patterns of behaviour. So why not take the world for what it is. The Rules is a tool and it works. If you haven't read it you might have a disadvantage to someone who did, but again, it's the same with every skill in life, if you put mnore effort into it, you get better. Besides, you can read it too. It does indeed seem like the women have the upper hand on this one. I'm still waiting for The Rules: For Men.

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