Tango Argentino > Rejections

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by wadpro, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    "First Milonguero: We are leaders, my liege.
    Macbeth: Ay, in the catalogue ye go for tango dancers,
    As hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs,
    Shoughs, water-rugs, and demi-wolves are clipt
    All by the name of dogs."

    - William Shakespeare, Macbeth,
  2. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe, or maybe not. People certainly can have similar feelings, but choose to take different actions. I don't know if one can prevent themselves from feeling hurt, but I do think that people can learn how to make better choices in what actions to take.
  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Language barrier maybe?
  4. hbboogie1

    hbboogie1 New Member

    Now do you understand the reasoning behind the cabaceo? This entire incident could have been avoided if only he had used the cabaceo.

    "Cabaceo" - invitation by the eyes, as through the years they have discovered this is the most effective, non-invasive way to invite a person to dance. By using Cabaceo, it is ensured that both the man and the lady want to dance with each other at that particular moment.
  5. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    A mountain more like.

    Ive tried to resist adding to this debate but really guys - I think the OP has got the point!!!!

    And Im sure he wont be doing it again .... :)
  6. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    No one is asking anything like that or demanding a certain thing from him. Suggestions have been made which he is free to disregard along with any opinions he doesn't feel are valid. He's a grown up... He can decide for himself and doesn't need to be coddled by people who feel that an open forum shouldn't include all sincere responses.

    I find it disturbing that the OP ASKED for our view and some of the people who gave their view are getting slammed for responding honestly.

    Seriously, people... What the..?
  7. New in NY

    New in NY New Member

    Can we vote to close this thread? I'm sure Wadpro stopped reading days ago.
  8. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    jantango and hb are right about this. To add, it saves face in the event of a rejection.
  9. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Yeah! Seriously...
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Well, with that logic, there's no reason for anyone to ever be concerned about how they treat others, because rudeness can always be compared favorably to genocide or some other atrocity in history.

    Yippee!!! We can all go on a free-for-all now with no concern for our effect on fellow humans! I've always wanted to be Gregory House! My excuse will be as you say above... I'm really just a gnat in the larger scheme of things. I'm sure that's why House behaves as he does too... He knows he is actually inconsequential.

    Ok... see you later guys... I'm off to use my scathing wit to ruin someone's day.. or at least their lunch break!
  11. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    This thread is getting quite heated - and i have to admit that i wasn't able to resist jumping in. I wasn't intending to slam anybody, and i am actually pretty sure that if the op had been something like: "I was at a milonga, and there was this women sitting at the edge of the dancefloor chatting with the woman next to her while obviously waiting for a dance, and when i asked for a dance she said "no, i am chatting", and i felt a bit stung", i would have responded something like "Well, this happens quite a lot, and i prefer when followers signal more clearly when they are not intending to dance, like by taking of their shoes, or sitting more to the back of the room, or by chatting "intensly" (whatever that is). I have been there, and it is tough - but i would probably risk asking her again another time". And a ton of people would have agreed with me, and a few would have pointed out that "asking" is always badf, and the cabeco always better, then the thread would have meandered around how to use the cabeco, and how in BA everyting is so much better and more genteel.
    But the op described the womans questionable behavior, and his (equally questionable) behaviour - they both rejected dances (for whatever reason) when asked. And as we are talking with the op, and not the woman it makes more sense to think about what the op can do about his behavior, i mean, no matter what we say she is not going to take the advice into account.

    The whole dynamic of this thread is in my opinon based on the problem that "good manners" have become something like a weapon that some people wield to put other people down - they have forgotten that the whole idea of manners is to make everybody as comfortable as possible. I know that i tend to get annoyed with seemingly arbitrary rules, especially if so called authorities use them to bolster they self esteem. And tit-for-tat is deeply ingrained in the human psyche. So how do we as parts of the community navigate this? Obviously as this thread shows there can be lots of leeway in what constitutes good manners. Here we have a whole bunch of positions: "the op was a jerk, the woman was behaving as a pleasant and welcoming person" "the op was a jerk, but the woman was a jerk first, so it was ok" "the woman was a jerk, and the op's behavior was good for the community because he fought back" "nobody was a jerk" "The people on this board are jerks for thinking the op is a jerk" "The people on this board are jerks for condoning the op behaving like a jerk" and so on, and so on.

    In the end i think dchester is wise: "I don't know if one can prevent themselves from feeling hurt, but I do think that people can learn how to make better choices in what actions to take"

    So, what about recommendations about "what actions to take to make things better"?
    Lui's suggestion of apologizing and using humor to open the lines of communication again and dance togehter might have been the most helpful. My own contribution was kinda negative - saying "this was not a good thing to do" does not give any suggestion on what to do better, and what to do to fix the situation. Mea culpa.

  12. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    The OP said that this happened a few months ago. I'd be curious to know what made him ask the question now, and how did things play out?

    (not that I'm nosy or anything)

  13. Spitfire

    Spitfire Well-Known Member

    Some time ago I concluded it is best not to ask someone for a dance while they are engaged in a conversation so I just wait until they are no longer doing so.
  14. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    That would depend on what the current situation is and what the OP would like the current situation to be. Without either of those pieces of info, we really can't give useful recommendations.

    We'd be stuck writing out all possible scenarios ("If the current situation is X, and you'd like it to be Y, you could do Z.. But if the current situation is D and you'd like it to Y, you'd have to do M. And if its G and you want it to be S, Z and M would be about the WORST things to do... etc, etc....)

    The OP doesn't seem to want to delve any further or reveal any more information, so there's nothing more to respons to except each other.
  15. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    me neither ;)
  16. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Not me, nope...:rolleyes:
  17. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Originally Posted by jantango [​IMG]
    This long discussion would not have occurred if a nonverbal invitation (cabeceo) had been used instead of a verbal one.

    Really? No-one ever gets rejected or upset in BsAs then?

    Originally Posted by jantango [​IMG]
    I wish the milongueros could read these posts.

    Well why can't they? It's an open forum.

    To Dave Bailey who asked the questions:
    If you used the cabeceo, you would know the answer to the first question.
    If you would visit BsAs and meet milongueros, you would be able to answer to the second one. They have neither computer skills nor a command of the English language.
  18. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Firstly, thank you Gssh for a hopefully heeded attempt at keeping things cool.

    Secondly, I lived in Baires for a long time, and saw the cabeceo misread lots, as well. Things happen. As was said, this should not be the focus of the thread, rather how to be a caring human being when they do.
  19. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    A huge APPLAUD to you DC (by the way where has the clapping piccy disappeared to?). See my bolds? this is what I mean by Cause and Effect. I have a friend (non-tango) who whenever she is wronged - she responds with a "I love you". (Okay, I'm not quite at that level yet) but yes, responding to (what we consider) a negative with a positive works all the time.

    To the OP - (wadpro?) I want to say that my comments about you had nothing to do with you as a human being (I'm not your family member and so I know you not) - but more on your response. We are none of us perfect and so turning the other cheek doesn't come easily to any of us (and you certainly aren't the only one here or off DF that often times take things waaaayyy too pesonally). Next time weigh up the difference between a mild scuff to the ego and a full blown punch to the solar plexus and when you arrive at the correct conclusion then that is when you can walk away feeling better than the person who hurt you.
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    i AGREE with you heather. What we feel and how we act are two kettles of fish.

    Firstly I applaud OP's congruence; he expressed himself there and then to the person in question. Its better to express them to the person than build up resentment.

    As my daughter is a fine example of how to behave; one of the classic behaviours is sulking ( or Le Resistance) she doesnt co-operate to show me that I cant make her do what i wants; so I have to wait until she's made it clear that I'm dog-poo and when she stops sulking we can carry on. so she's got the first bit of the Non-Violent_communication Model and certainly I have been in a similar situation to OP's where i wanted to dance with a particular person to a particular song; so I didnt really want to dance with her five minutes later when the music was different and I felt disappointed.

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