Tango Argentino > Rejections

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by wadpro, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    it doesn't strike me that this thread is all that strong -- it's simply a string of replies to the OP's question "was I right?". most seem to find his behaviour off-base, so we've got a long string of "you were not right and this is why".

    so let's just all remember that the OP asked for this kind of feedback. i just don't wanna see this go off in a direction of villifying our reproaches. :D
     
  2. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I would generally agree, but it only takes a couple of rotten apples and we have two granny smiths or sourer still. I think AT is just like anywhere else, good and bad. My Aikido class are a lot are a lot friendlier; spend a couple of hours throwing each other around and inflicting painful wrist locks,wrench your arms out of their sockets, etc but they all have hearts of gold.
     
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Thank you. thats the nicest thing any one has said about me for a while. :)
     
  4. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I would quibble slightly with your assessment... I'd say that the norm is polite and respectful (if you accept being corrected by total strangers you dance with as "respectful").

    The extent to which it is friendly and sociable can vary quite a bit from place to place. In some places, all it takes to be "outside the social norm" is to be getting instruction from a different school or instructor than the majority goes to. If the instructor teaches a different style, then the majority might even feel you are a bad dancer because the way you do it is "wrong".

    I find that AT can be either the most fun friendly crowd and can also be like the worst of what many of us experienced in high school. And any given community can be BOTH of these at the same time for different people participating. Or on different nights.

    I don't think AT is any different from any other group of assembled people in that regard, except that perhaps it is a little more intense in everything it is. There will be little internal feuds. There will be romances and breakups that make things awkward. There will be tensions and rivalries and jealousies and "cliques". There will be people who assume others are snobs, and there will be people who really ARE snobs. There will be insecurity and pettiness and frustration and despair.

    There will also be real friends to make, sublime dances to experience, wonderful friendly people who reach out to shy people who feel intimidated, beginners who are ecstatic if you dance with them at all, people who will give you that one comment that leads to a major breakthrough, partners who make you feel unique and special (at least for 10 minutes) lots of laughs, "once in a lifetime" fabulous memories, a sense of adventure, and a considerable feeling of accomplishment once you get to a certain level after all your hard work.

    In other words, there will be all types of folks and experiences... just like life... only more so.
     
  5. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    .. Re: just like life

    Hi Zoopsia, I fear, that the TA guys are not a random sample .... (perhaps me included) ;)
     
  6. BlueSkies

    BlueSkies New Member

    Fair points Zoops, a good qualification on my post - especially about the people (predominantly but not exclusively leaders I guess) who attempt to coach on the dance floor. It drives me nuts to see these people turn their partners into nervous wrecks when they clearly haven't got the skill or knowledge to teach.

    Just like the guys that I hear are physically uncomfortable to dance with, I do find it strange that these delusional wannabe teachers continue to get dances... though I understand imbalance of numbers etc is a factor, as is their tendency to pick on novice dancers who won't know better.

    Loved your description of the good things in tango though - I guess I experienced 99% of that, and only 1% or less of the other side.

    Blue
     
  7. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    CANI, No, it is not for dramatic effect. The lady did refuse the OP originally but she did state that she would finish her conversation first, then dance with the OP. She made good her promise, and came back for him next tanda. This happens all the time in a milonga (It happens to me too).

    She acted in good faith, went to the OP next tanda, only to be severely repudiated by the OP because he didn't like her reason. It was rude and insulting to the lady, not to mention arrogant and ungentlemanly.

    This is the kind of attitude that will get you vilified. AT communities are like any community, be nice, be respectful of the norms of the place, and you'll be fine. If you're not sure of what is expected behavior, watch the floor and observe the dynamic. Make friends, and ask someone.
     
  8. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    wadpro,

    Out of curiosity, how long have you been dancing AT? What is your social dance background before you decided to try AT?
     
  9. latin queen

    latin queen New Member

    Well it seems to me that an explanation was given for refusing a dance at that particular time, and at the same time an offer was made to dance with you afterwards. I don't see this as rude but merely she was wanting to finish off a conversation with her friend.

    Now if for example a leader were to ask someone to dance and the follower refused, but then went onto dance with another leader during the same track then that in my opinion is rude.
     
  10. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    There might be a lot snobbishness in the tango world, but this thread is not reallly about it.

    To put it in context for non-TA people (non-social dancers?) what is prompting the strong reactions in this thread is that the woman was - at least by TA standards - EXTREMELY gracious and sociable. There was no need for her to approach the op for a dance later, real traditionalists would even suggest that by approaching him and _asking_ for a dance SHE basically humilated herself. So what this looks like is that a follower declined an invitation because she was socializing - which is her explicit right, and happens all the time, and is not a big deal, and when she later went out of her way to make up for it (which she was in no way obligated to do) she was (quite rudely) rebuffed.

    It is like if a wedding guest had to decline the invitiation becasue of a prior commitment, and so, to make up for it sent a very nice gift that is obviously out of the normal price range, and then the bride decided to smash the gift with a hammer and send it back. And now the bride is on a wedding board and says "I think everybody who is invited has to come to my wedding, and i was perfectly right to humiliate the prospective guest, and reject their gift, no?"

    Gssh
     
  11. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    I started to dance tango in 2006 and I took tango lessons for 6 months and after 1.5 year break off I restarted again in 2008.

    By the way, many women (at least 25-30 different women) asked me for a dance and I never rejected them except this one.

    If someone asks me for dance I always accept and if I am not happy with that person, I dance with her durind at least 1-2 songs.
     
  12. Mr Walker

    Mr Walker New Member

    A lady i like to dance with was in deep conversation at the milonga (i found out after that they had not seen each other for along time).i placed myself in her line of sight and walked over to where they were seated..and without intruding or looking at them i sat down in the next seat. after awhile without breaking her conversation with her friend she reach and held my hand to let me know she knew i was there...the end of the original song finished and so did her conversation...then we danced..and again it was lovely...My point is this i never interrupt people in conversation..it's just plain bad manners. if a lady turns me down for a dance i say sorry to have troubled you and move on..just because she is in a milonga it doe's not mean she owes me anything...and the last thing i want is for her to feel is pressure to dance with a stranger she doe's not wish too..for followers who understand Cabeceo i do not need to approach we agree before i have left my seat...life is too short to think about dances that did not happen...i prefer to remember the beautiful ones...see i'm smiling already..
     
  13. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    true...it does hurt to feel rejected and all of us should be able to empathize with that...lord knows I do...but he had a choice as to how to respond to her and while even he doesn't know her intent, his was by his own admission, tit for tat so to speak...and since he wants to know whether or not what he did was rude...answer seems to equal "yes" regardless
     
  14. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    exactly...I echo this entire post...what I keep coming back to from wadpro is the repeated use of the word "rejected"...I think alot of the problem was that he framed the action as a personal rejection of himself rather than condsidering a myriad of other possibilities and did not rise above how spurned that decline of his invitation made him feel...it doesn't make him some beast...but, in that moment, he certainly didn't rise to the better angels of his nature
     
  15. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I didn't see a lynch mob mentality..and if there had been one, I would be very surprised if a cry for empathy would be on its lips...I think folks were just honestly shocked by wadpro's choice, even as it was told in his own best light...and somewhat taken aback by the fact that he seemed resistant to hearing that when he in fact asked for perspectives based upon his story as told in his own words...that what he got was probably just as hard to hear as what he perecieved he experienced at the milonga is unfortunate but there are consequences for having flubbed it...I don't think it means that anyone who responded is out to draw blood on him...just not terribly impressed with his choice
     
  16. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I think what folks tried to point out, which was immediately discarded by him, was that no one knew whether her reason was legit or not...and he will never know b/c of his chosen response
     
  17. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    agree...and I don't think you should be cast in the role of part of a lynch mob for having it
     
  18. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    and...his intent wasn't to be helpful as yours was...it was to return rejection
     
  19. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I personally feel that you would be well served to eliminate the term "reject" from your vocabulary and replace it with "declined"
     
  20. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    I think this is one of the keys...I've read, and re-read, wadpro's comments since his original post...and none of it comes across -- at all -- to me as discarding advice. Not at all. Not one bit. I won't bother you with my read on his comments as it is besides the point. My read isn't right or wrong -- it is simply that, my read.

    I'm going to drop out of this conversation now as the conclusion I've reached is we all 'read' things into the words presented in a particular post...and whatever hot buttons or any other type of button that touches within each of us, is what drives our response. So someone who 'reads' a post one way will think 'my goodness, that poster's post was a harsh response to the OP' and someone who 'reads' a post a different way will think 'my goodness, that poster's post was ridiculously soft/off base response to the OP.'
     

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