Tango Argentino > Rejections

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by wadpro, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    yes...your view is your view and mine is mine...I am clear and capable of reading all of wadpro's posts and don't require a reprint of them
  2. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    Hi Ampster - Thanks for the answer to my question! CANI
  3. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    my apologies...no intent to imply you weren't capable of reading them...my edit to the post explains the rest...
  4. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    And are you aware of just how serious it is generally considered to be to end a tanda early? That's a move which is usually reserved for inappropriate behavior (roaming hands, lewdness, and so forth), risk of injury, or something else which makes it well nigh impossible to continue dancing (extreme bad breath or body odor, for example). Generally, in communities where the norm is to dance in tandas--not all places do--it is considered extremely rude not to finish the tanda for a reason as inconsequential as not liking a person.

    The general rule of etiquette is that, if you are unsure of a person but would like to take a chance dancing with them, you should ask them midway through a tanda so as to finish off the last couple songs with them. That lessens your commitment in case it is not to your liking, or, if it was satisfactory you can always elide it into the next tanda.
  5. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    First I like to express my respect for wadpro for rejoining the discussion, even when the odds are against him. Most posters assume, that she declined to dance with him in a sensible, polite way, which most likely was the case. But maybe her rejection went more along these line: “How do you dare to disrupt our conversation, inferior. Wait at my disposal until I call upon you“ What ever she said, it appears to me, that it created in him the feeling to be expected to wait for his mistress like a puppy dog. Obviously he didn’t want to do that and i can sympathize with him. If this really was her intention or more a problem in wadpro’s mind, I can only speculate.

    However, his consequences was a bad choice. Now two people had hurt feelings and she might not even have a clue why. An alternative might have been to be honest,”I would like do dance but I’m a little/mighty offset because off the reason you declined earlier/ the time you had me waiting” If that’s to much on the wussy side of life foe you, how about “Glad you came. But before we dance, tell me about your secret world domination plans you just discussed.at length. ... Oh, that was the only reason that kept us so long apart”. Make her laugh and feel a little bad about the suspense she put you in. Maybe she had a real serious problem to discuss and it would be the smartest solution to comfort her or lighten her mind. Well, I think you see! You are only in the game, once you decide to start playing.

    Therefore, I think it boils down what you really want that evening, a night of unsatisfying power play or fun at the dance.

    P.S.: Use off cabezeo will avoid such trouble!
  6. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Agreed. (Well, maybe not so much about the cabeceo. ;)) Wadpro's feelings were real and valid, regardless of the woman's intention in declining the dance. And perhaps her turning him down was done rudely. Perhaps. ... But no matter how valid the feeling, it does not excuse the behavior IMO.

    Lui, I LOVE your sense of humor. And it's generally so on-point, too. :)
  7. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    What's the alternative to excusing "bad" behavior?
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    You nailed it. It's not his feelings that were the issue (at least not for me). It was his actions that I feel were wrong. You aren't defined by how you feel or what your intentions are. You are defined by what you actually do.
  9. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    The action arises from the feeling. So the questions is, what do you do with your feelings to get into a positive action?
    You will cure the symptoms, when you cure the cause.
  10. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    This long discussion would not have occurred if a nonverbal invitation (cabeceo) had been used instead of a verbal one. Thank goodness for that! We have so much interesting reading about who was right and who was wrong, who acted badly and whose feelings were hurt, etc.

    I wish the milongueros could read these posts.
  11. ant

    ant Member

    IMO speculation is unneccessary in this situation.

    Wadpro gave us the picture in the OP, he was invited to give additional information but has merely kept to his original line, in I think four subsequent posts. There comes a time when you have to accept a situation the way the person says it is.

    In this instance I would not even put the the response of the lady as strongly as declined but deferred. Based upon her actions as described by wadpro I see no negetive intent at all.

    I would very much like to get your read.

    I don't know about everybody else but it is my failure to understand wadpro's subsequent rejection of the lady and even more so his unwavering stance of sticking with his original view after all the feedback he has had that I don't get and hopefully your read will help.
  12. Lui

    Lui Active Member

    There might be a connection. Even if wadpro acted like an elephant tap dancing in the chinaware-shop of good manners, it’s not the end of the world! I think asking him to repent in public and accepting a penance is a little much. He seems to be on a pilgrimage to Bs.As, anyway. I don’t think we are a trial, so what do we want to accomplish with this thread..

    I for my part would be happy, if I persuade people to approach dancing more playfully, so that I have an even better time at the milonga.
  13. ant

    ant Member

    I don't think anybody is asking for a penance. Although a response along the lines of "thanks for the feedback it has given me food for thought" may be apropriate.

    However people, including yourself, seem to be trying to explain his actions by introducing some imaginary behavior of the lady concerned, although some more realistic assessments of his behavior based upon the facts given would be more realistic albeit really scarry.

    It is exactly to be happy at a Milonga (or any social dance enevironment for that matter) that this thread is really all about. For me the important principle in this whole scenario is how much consideration a person is expected show towards others in a social dance environment.

    To go out of your way to hurt somebody's feelings for no good reason or even if you perceived a possible petty reason and it is 15 minutes after the incident, it is wholly unacceptable. We are considering the actions of a grown man that at worst was rejected in a polite way but with a reason that did not sit well with the OP. When even that situation was corrected by the lady concerned.

    IMO anybody that tacitly accepts this by looking for excuses or possible explanations, that do not exist, may be considered by the OP or others to indirectly encourage that behavior.

    My thinking regarding wadpro then goes on to how this type of unneccessary hurtful behavior and subsequent rigid view sits with his attitude to partners when dancing and the reason he has introduced his other thread. Because I think rightly or wrongly there is more to this than we presently know.

    I am interested to know what spurred wadpro to start these threads, that interests me because if we can get behind his intent we may actually be able to help him and other people that may come into his sights in future or at the very least for me understand why a person acts in the way they do when I next come across similar behavior, as say

    and the above is without the gloating comments that wadpro made when he exacted his revenge on the lady. Which incidently he still does not consider to be rude.
  14. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Surprised this molehill is still growing but I will add a little cultural perspective. The Welsh ( I am half Welsh) were never slow to take a slight intended or not. In the tales of the Mabinogion there is the story of Geraint and Enid

    "The romance concerns the love of Geraint, one of King Arthur's men, and the beautiful Enid. Geraint, son of King Erbin of Dumnonia, courts Enid. The couple marry and settle down together, but rumors spread that Geraint has gone soft. Upset about this, Enid cries to herself that she is not a true wife for keeping her husband from his chivalric duties, but Geraint misunderstands her comment to mean she has been unfaithful to him. He makes her join him on a long and dangerous trip and commands her not to speak to him. Enid disregards this command several times to warn her husband of danger. Several adventures follow that prove Enid's love and Geraint's fighting ability. The couple is happily reconciled in the end, and Geraint inherits his father's kingdom."Wikipedia

    If you read the story the " dangerous journey" basically means Geraint is p***** off and takes on all comers. He goes on a killing spree that rivals Terminator, killing knight after knight. So I think Wadpro's actions are a mere gnatbite on the elephant's arse of life.
  15. ant

    ant Member

    A molehill maybe, maybe not. However for people that consider the matter to be something that is worthy of debate maybe not. And who then has the right to belittle that view?

    At the end of the day we are hopefully not talking about violence, theft and other behavior that is totally distasteful. However we talking about a person that seems to have gone out of his way to be hurtful to another person and whether this should be validated by the people on this forum. A molehill?
  16. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    I suspect many men would kind of like that... :D
  17. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Really? No-one ever gets rejected or upset in BsAs then?

    Well why can't they? It's an open forum.
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    har-har ( piratical laugh) DB you could organise a mediaeval fancy dress tango and allocate feudal positions when people bought their tickets, so you would have to dance with someone who was your feudal superior, but you could tell a wench or a serf to bog off.

    "Pray, a toast to Lord Bailey of Jivedom"

    although I suspect I would end up being court jester :(
  19. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    You know, that almost sounds workable? :D
  20. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    And pox be upon any gent that dare to decline my invitations...

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