Tango Argentino > Videos > Ricardo Vidort (2004 Rome) tango & milonga

Discussion in 'Videos' started by jantango, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    This is possibly the best video to date of the late milonguero who died in May 2006.

  2. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah. Only watched the the first part, but didn't take long for the smile to break out for the musicality.
    One thing that is unusual is his use of his heels. I've seen women do the on the heel toes up thing, as does his partner. And it is not uncommon.
    Do you see that much use of the foot this way down there, or is this a quirk of his styling?
  3. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    I didn't notice. Too much is added to gain applause for an exhibition.
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Isn´t milonguero and show dancer a contradiction per se?
  5. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    If you want to express musicality more specific different elements are appropriate.
    Look more carefully when he use those heels. :cool:
  6. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    Compared to videos of his social dancing, his footwork is a lot more decorated. His partner is clearly putting on a show, butt wiggling and all.
  7. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

  8. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Steve, I have never seen much use of such a striking foot drive
    in BsAs. In later video of RV it certainly is not as powerful but
    then he was progressively becoming less well and presumably
    less energetic. There are references to that period on Tango&Chaos.

    I started using this technique on the last stay in BsAs as a way
    of marking and responding to the music. It changes everything,
    for you, your partner and even those who observe and notice.
    It requires another level of energy and whole body presence.
    Not for nothing did RV say "put all the meat on the fire".
    He also reputed to have said "always lead with the toe",
    this video clearly shows what he meant. It doesn't mean the
    heel doesn't land, sometimes it does, sometimes not.
    Sometimes he turned on heels (and so do I) - it would have
    depended on circumstances and the moment. And by the way,
    the second half of the video shows all this more clearly because
    of the camera angle I think (I haven't rewatched for this note).

    It's worth noting too that this is not really the same as the walk
    Rick McGarrey demonstrates on video, it's more a drive of the
    ball of the foot into the floor and you can really feel the change.

    One other thing, it reinforces projection, that ability to move
    your partner from the upper chest without compromise. But you
    had better be fit, have the body core and the torsion to make it
    all work.

    Off-topic warning - do forget Gotta Tango, it won't help!
    Even the basic premise is very questionable.
  9. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Well, thanks for the comments. I guess I should be more specific.
    Watch right at 1:05 / 1:06 when he does a rock step to see what I'm talking about.

    Somehow I missed this Gotta Tango thread when I looked a while ago.
    It's funny that I wrote this 4 years ago, because nothing apparently has changed.
    (OF course then we didn't have a built in spell checker!)

    They also make ganchos sound easy. Of course if both partners have relly solid basic, they CAN be, but I rarely got there exepect for women with who had been in the same classes as me.
    The gancho is merely a interupted woman's back step around the man - or something like that.

    This came up at my AT reboot yesterday. It took a while to put it together, but my original teachers, who are still at it and actually going do to a reprise of the class they did over a decade ago with the same studio, do not teach the upper chest bit.
    What I am hearing is to move from the "stomach" rather than the chest, and this is not consistent with what the formerly active and unreformed folks have been teaching all these years. And that is consistent with my observations as what the PDX women expect nowadays. "I feel like you are falling on me," is the comment I have heard in the past.
  10. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't worry about it, milongueros of RV's era did with their feet
    what their partnership of the movement of the bodies together required.
    It's doubtful if he could have told you the what and the why
    of what he did at that moment.

    borisvian quite effectively shot down the premise,
    and I seemed to have finished it off!
    Leave it alone, at least for learning or refining the dance.

    And yes(ish). But I thought you liked the partner connected, musically connected,
    social floor connected dance of Lo de Celia. Ganchos have no part to play
    in that dance. They, and overturned ochos, and square giros etc., etc.,
    are for the stage and performance. Perhaps you want a new holiday job
    as a street dancer outside a cafe in La Boca?

    jantango insisted, as only Janis can (hi Janis), that I change my embrace
    from the one (of many compromises taught here) I had. She raised my right
    arm as high as possible and wrapped right around her so she could actually
    feel my fingers (don't dig in) on the right side of her ribcage. This was
    another fundamental change which did somewhat disrupt my dancing slightly
    for a while and then the new and improved possibilities emerged.

    That's sad, yet entirely consistent with the commercialisation of tango which
    is following a path trod by ballroom 100 years ago.

    Moving the contact downwards avoiding chest contact does all sorts of negative things
    to the dance, and has some unfortunate unintended consequences for women.
    It is great for teachers who no longer have to deal with the soft untoned sedentary bodies
    of today. It's tango for people who don't dance and possibly never will. But it satisfies
    today's market. Fast food tango! Come and buy it today, 10 lessons and you can look
    like a tango dancer (to the uninitiated).

    It actually feels horrible, I avoid dancers like this like the plague.
    If they have no body engagement, no tone, little core, that's what it will feel like
    to them. They don't know what they need because they are probably never going
    to be taught. If they are, very few will put in the effort to get dance fit.
    Nor will they ever reach the dance of ultimate connection and feeling.

    Those who do have the physicality and aptitude don't learn
    what the dance could be in these sorts of classes.
  11. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Show dancers prepare choreography for performance before an audience.
    Milongueros dance in the moment for themselves and their partners.
    There is no contradiction; they are different.
    The first dance for applause. The latter dance to feel the music.

    A milonguero's best dancing is done on a crowded floor, not on an empty one. This demo was for the benefit of those who didn't know his dancing.
  12. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    You were right!

    I have to plan ahead for my retirement years.
    Actually, I know a nice spot beside Galleria Pacifico.
    I know where I can find a nice black, brimmed hat and a white scarf, too.

    I remember at least one evening when the two of you were discussing that.
    And I can promise you that you would be seriously dismayed if I gave more detail on one recent incident.

    Let's just say that I won't be dancing with that particular woman again.

    But seriously, regarding ganchos, it's mostly for something I have in mind for West Coast Swing. And I will get 'er done.

    If I want to dance AT here in Portland I have to make the best of what I have to work with. Remember, I walked away from this for quite some time once before, after the few days in Buenos Aires.

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