Tango Argentino > Rise and fall when walking?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Dave Bailey, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    No. :D

    My supporting leg is pretty much straight when I'm walking forwards but not when I'm walking backwards.

    Forwards or backwards my arriving leg isn't straight.

    It could be that someone here tells me I need to refine my technique - but what the hey. I know my walk looks good and I don't rise and fall - wow, I actually blew my own trumpet (unheard of!)
  2. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Crikey, you're making this difficult.

    Originally I was trying to find out what it was you were talking about. I thought the reason for that was very clear.

    You already surely have the answer to this. The standing leg should be straight on collection and from the point of landing the foot all the way through to departure.
    That applies to every movement: forward, backwards, sideways.

    No rise up onto the ball of the foot either. Let's call the rise and fall you see a gentle up and down movement directly as a consequence of the change of supporting leg angle to vertical and to an angle again. Don't flatten that vertical movement by bending at the knee.

    Is that clear enough? But don't forget it's just my opinion, there are always others. There's plenty to read about it on TangoandChaos.
  3. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

  4. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    This question reminds me of one that I once asked in a Poetry class;..Is the work of Charles Bukowski 'Poetry'? ...the teacher answered; "What do you think?" I was adamant and insisted on a Yes/No answer....So, he replied; "OK, Yes"....that solved it for me but I didn't learn anything from it.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in a nutshell xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Theoreticaly there is no rise and fall in the walk. So, the answer is "NO".
    there are those who do the 'theory' so well that they look like robots..this is where
    'cadencia' comes in and adds life to the dance/walk.
    Moves to the side often have the pendulum (up,down) motion that Oscar Casas talks about (YouTube).
    When the lead walks backwards, a motion that resembles the zipping up of
    a jumpsuit is very helpful and enlivening. It has a surging look to it and is all good.
  5. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    I can't physically walk backwards if my standing leg is totally straight. If you look at Mladenac's clip, the lady there does not appear to fully straighten her leg either.
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    So, in the red corner we have:
    And in the blue corner we have:
    Anybody else want to add in an opinion?
  7. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    An opinion on whether I have straight legs or not? Well, I could send video evidence if required ;) I did a langourous tango to Leonard Cohen once captured on VT...
  8. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Don't bounce. Beyond that...make it work.
  9. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    Nice one, Peaches.
  10. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    If you have a little jaunt in your walk when you're going for a stroll, you'll probably have the same when you are doing tango. :)
  11. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

  12. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    upside down

    Hi Mario, another approach, though I think I´m standing alone: There is (better: there must be) but it is tried to hide it with the upper body (the latter is a stylistic fact, the former an orthopaedic).

    My view.

    Now there´s is a knot in my brain: b.c. that would be absolutly the contrary of what I try to put into it ??? Every step I lead is with ups and downs of my whole body. How else could you lead these small steps in double time to all sides....??
  13. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    here standing leg cannot be fully straight cause she need to push herself back.
    but both of them arrive on straight legs.

    if arriving legs are not fully extended distance between them is changing.
  14. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    Oh I think you should recolour (recolor?) the Blue corner, Pink! Light Sleeper is viewing it from a Lady's perspective so in this summation she's disqualified . . . assuming you were asking as a man - you are a man aren't you?

    It's no wonder AT is so confusing if we can't separate the roles and actions of the sexes.

    Frankly I don't know why you keep coming back like this, it's up to you to decide from the evidence, your own knowledge, what's been taught, what you see at milongas and on the web, what's written - there's plenty of that - and what experience tells you works for your body and works best for your partners. Experiment and decide but in my experience with AT, the easiest solution is not always the best.
  15. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    Should they be straight?
    I think there is general agreement that the answer to this question is NO.

    Can they be straight?
    Here is where the debate is. My preference is no to this, (at least most of the time), but it's just a style preference.
  16. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    What do you fink dis postal strike is abaht then? Straight knees, mate, straight knees.
  17. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I think we'll be able to find youtube examples of just about every conceivable variation on this straightening/rising/bending/blahblahblahfishcakes theme. It comes down to what you get taught.

    I was taught emphatically and universally by all my teachers that you should NOT step onto a straight leg, nor should you straighten it as you transfer your weight to it. These are the only ways your supporting leg could be straight when you collect or pass through neutral.

    It is straight as you reach/extend and you smoothly soften the knee as you transfer weight to that leg, so that you stay even and smooth. "Collection" is the point at which you are completely, solidly, over one leg. Therefore, your supporting knee would NOT be straight when you collect.

    I do see people doing just the opposite (followers going backwards) they don't really extend their leg, their reach has a bent reaching knee, they place their foot somewhat under themself because they can't reach very far with the knee bent, and then they straighten the leg as they put their weight on it and collect the now free foot. From what I was taught, this is WRONG WRONG WRONG. And I've seen people (and been guilty myself) of extending the leg straight and transferring too much weight on it before bending/softening it resulting in a bobbing up and down thing. This can be especially problematic with tall partners since their is a subconscious tendency to rise up to make a connection in the part of the body that feels "normal".
  18. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    troublemaker :p
  19. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I have to totally disagree that bending the knees reduces the grounding and connection to the floor.
  20. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    deleted due to double post... complete post can be found further downthread

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