rising on the standing foot in waltz

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by gtech, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. gtech

    gtech New Member

    hi everyone, I have a very technical question. When we are low on our standing leg and we need to rise on it, do we first straighten the hip joint and the knee and after that rise with the feet, or we straighten all the joints at the same time? Thank you so much for your answers
  2. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    In general, leg/body rise and foot rise should happen simultaneously, though depending on how bent your leg is, you may have more leg rise first. But even if your heel is on the floor and the rise is only through the body so far in the movement, there should still be a large amount of pressure from the ankle/foot into the floor.

    Is this for just standing on the leg and rising, or is your question also regarding rise in the context of weight changes?
  3. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    I beleive this question to be way too techincal for most application. We are not robots. The body is built/geared to move in a certain way. Too often, we over-technicalize, and do not allow the body to do what it wants to do naturally.

    Rise in dance, when referring to the feet, simply means to lift the heels by rolling towards/onto the balls of the feet. Close the eyes, and do this in a slow and natural (not methodical) motion. You will feel when the ankles, thighs, core, and topline respond (in that order).
  4. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    Different types of rise have different order-of-operations.

    In a situation where you are already on the standing leg and then want to rise, I'm thinking probably knees first and then feet (if at all).

    On the other side, there are applications for the softened kind of character that results from the combination of bent knees with foot rise. The most characteristic is probably weaves in foxtrot, but you also see this in waltz where you want to gradually rise over a number of steps without getting stuck too high to soon - turning locks, side locks, etc.
  5. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    Depends.

    Are you:
    1. Not moving (e.g.: just taken a side prep step) and rising straight up;
    2. Moving on a forward rise;
    3. or, Moving on a backwards rise?

    After you answer that, the next question is, what's your next step?

    To a point, I happen to agree with Angel HI--about over-thinking a movement.

    And echoing Chris' post--there are a number of possibilities.




    m
  6. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    And heres a quote from Scrivener-- " Too much rise, is as bad as too little "

    He used to say that techn. such as rise , cannot be measured ,due to the fact the application will vary from dance to dance, and from step to step .

    All rise starts with compression, and is assimilated upwards thru the body and feet as deemed necessary .
  7. gtech

    gtech New Member

    I was talking about rise on the right foot for a lady in natural turn before closing the feet. What is the difference between this rise and a rise before doing a step forward or slightly side? I thought you rise in the same way whether you klose your feet or not but I could be wrong.
    I always thought that in natural turn( as in all back turns in waltz) before the rise on 2, we place the foot that we are going to rise on flat on the floor and then we rise on it, but I saw some people place it right away on the ball and then rise some more. I always thought that we need as much time as possible to rise on the foot but which one is correct-heel on the floor then rise or heel slightly off the floor and then rise?
  8. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    The heel would probably not quite be on the floor - the step is onto the inside edge of the ball of the foot. There will still of course be rise in the foot continuing from that point, but it's placed with the toe pointed enough that the heel won't be involved - even if it were to touch the floor (reaching too far in very high heels?), the weight would not be on it, but on the ball of foot.

    A possibly related issue is that while we talk about that second step being in a pointing alignment, and we demonstrate it pointing the leg out there, that position with the leg straightened away from the body doesn't really happen when it's actually danced. Instead, the foot reaches it's position only as the body moves towards it. Typically if you demonstrate it as a static position you'll have the left leg bent and the right leg straight, but when it's actually danced the degree of bend in the legs at any given instant should be close to matching, which also means that your knees will always be a little bit towards each other.

    Also, your rise actually commences on step one just as your partner's does, however on the inside of this turn you will have body/leg rise only, and no actual foot rise on the left foot. When this is done, you already be standing taller by the time step two is placed, which means that your foot will be intersecting the floor at a more vertical angle than it would be if you were still extremely low in the legs.
  9. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    Quite a bit actually, but they're the realm of technical minutiae.
    Don't know if that's what you're after.

    Realize that people will have very spirited conversations about what's "correct" or "incorrect" in that regard.
    But what usually is forgotten in those discussions is that at that technical level nothing is really incorrect, they're just different.
    The cause of the difference is usually because of the style of movement (either because of the figure, the expression, or the look desired).

    gtech, your question is really about timing.

    For the figure in question, I can think of three different styles:

    1. Rising at the end of the preceding step and arriving "at a high position" (this is where the lady's right leg is kept relatively straight, and the sway/action when closing the feet into the 3rd step is best described as Metronomic).

    2. Rising during the time the body travels to the 2nd step (this is what most of us learn at the onset).

    3. (And what you described) The body arriving on the second foot with very little rise--instead most of the rise is performed AFTER the weight is taken fully onto the right foot.

    Three different schools of thought/style:
    (for lack of better terms) momentum driven, classical, and power, respectively.

    Again, let me reiterate that this is all technical minutiae--whereas the technical mechanics will be the same (if not very similar), it is the timing of WHEN things are done (if they are done at all) that will differ depending upon the style or expression being danced.




    m
  10. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    Thought I might add:

    From the standpoint of how it "feels".

    1 feels like you're pushing a straight body that's leaning to the left, to vertical--without bending the legs too much (on 2).
    2 feels like you're rising gradually.
    3 feels like you're staying low for the duration and then rising late.


    I hope this helps others who go by feel, more than by technical description...




    m
  11. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl New Member

    Thanks, max! Both the technical and the "feel" descriptions are very helpful.
  12. gtech

    gtech New Member

    thanks from me too. Very good explanations.
  13. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

  14. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    You're welcome!




    m
  15. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

  16. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Actually, Fasc, you're right...they generally are pretty well thought.

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