Salsa > salsa dancers perceptions of tango

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by merci beaucoup, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    No offense taken peaches, I whole heartedly understand your feelings.

    I'm very progamatic as well, just not when emotions will elevate my interactions...

    I find the feeling to connect with someone at a level that transends ones conscious actions more than words can express. Words that if someone without bias, with reservations, was within my body, that person would want to be wrapped in tango like the 2 between H2O.
     
  2. amo_dile_que_no

    amo_dile_que_no New Member

    I think I would like the tango. As much as I love salsa, I do miss the slow, close dances we would have 3-4 times a night in country dancing. I don't think I would like to tango the whole evening though. I love the energy of salsa. I like being able to dance with abandon. A guy in his fifties can do that and still hold on to some of his dignity. When it gets late I'll even get into to some raegeton. But I do feel a little sheepish the next day.

    As an older single guy, I do try to respect the lady's personal space. I don't want to get a reputation as a lecher. But I do like to dance close. I danced a merengue once with a latina who danced very close. It was memorable! Another time I danced a very slow salsa with a lady who thought I was too distant. When she said "come closer", I did (also memorable). I guess I leave the issue about how close to dance to the lady, because I just see too many guys that are all over them and the attention is not welcome.

    But a nice tango now and then with a lady who doesn't mind dancing close. I'm sure I'd love it.
     
  3. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Where did you say you live? :)

    The world stops when there is a soul-to-soul connection, the mind drowns in a bed of ecstasy, bodies disappear, and 2 souls become one. It's like a free ticket to heaven. Everyone should feel that at least once in their lifetime!

    thespina, I spotted you from all the way over here. :)
     
  4. africana

    africana New Member

    :lol: :lol: guess there's a fine line btwn poetic and creepy sometimes

    as for posters implying that provincialism or ignorance is the reason some of us aren't into tango, think again! I've learned and tried over 20 different dances as a result of learning salsa, so not wanting to dnace tango (atm) has nothing to do with being small-minded. It involves personal commitment to do it wholly, and a dancer that doesn't get this is not a true dancer.
     
  5. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Africana, I wasn't sure whose post you were referring to when you mentioned ignorance/provincialism. If you were referring to something I wrote (the word "ignorance" is what makes me wonder), I honestly did not mean to imply that about other dancers who choose not to learn AT.

    I used that solely in reference to myself, because I consider myself extremely ignorant about other (non-white/anglo american) cultures.

    I surely did not mean to offend...
     
  6. africana

    africana New Member

    don't worry it was definitely not your posts that I was referring to
     
  7. Haven't read any responses yet, but here goes. . .

    I wouldn't say I have a negative feeling about AT (the way I do, to some extent, about swing), but here are my impressions.

    I admire the radically lead-follow nature of the dance, and the emphasis on improvisation (even in the early stages of learning).

    The main problem I have is that I haven't clicked with the music. I didn't like the music being used when I took a few lessons. It may have been the particular music, or may have been tango itself, but the rhythms just had a nervous feel to them which heightened my own tendency toward nervousness. If you want to attract new students (especially from the salsa crowd), you might consider focusing on trying out different varieites of tango music, to see which ones are the most appealing to new/crossover students.

    I also don't like the fact that tango doesn't feel like something you can just go out and dance and just get down to the way you can to salsa. I don't necessarily want to spend most of my salsa time freestyling, but I definitely like the fact that it can be danced that way. Salsa feels more related to the free form social dancing I did before learning any partner dancing.
     
  8. Boriken, it sounds like you think it's some sort of virtue to be promiscuous with your soul? Am I misreading you?
     
  9. africana

    africana New Member

    I will admit that given the chance to "hand pick" a totally hot and ripped, ultra-smokin stranger who will strip his clothes, er i mean his soul, from his body i will totally sign up for AT TODAY
    i too can spot this kind man a mile away, yes ma'am, my friends would approve too

    :lol:
     
  10. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    LOL... this is quickly becoming a very odd thread. Perhaps we should stay on topic?
     
  11. africana

    africana New Member

    whachu talkin about? we are on topic silly :p
    I looked around my AT class and saw no stranger with whom I would like to be that close to, so i ran. BUT if I coud hand pick a guy...now we're talkin ;)
     
  12. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    LOL... I started to get worried when the "promiscuous souls" thing came up. ;) Maybe it hit one of my nerves? *eep*
     
  13. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    LOL, this topic is getting way funny!

    Don't use properties of the body to relate to the soul and then we are getting somewhere. Kind of like saying, God gives himself to everyone, so that isn’t good, because it sure isn’t a virtue for God to offer himself to everyone. Instead he should select, through outmost bias, with whom he'll share his love.

    Well, if we think of it materialistically, as God being a flesh and blood person, then we might say, God is promiscuous, and that might just not be a very good thing. However, when we think of God as an essence that is out there helping everyone, then we feel it is good to have a God that is willing to give part of him to all of us, all of the time. ….just equating entities that have no material attributes.

    Same with the soul, a soul doesn't have a material state, so promiscuity never applies. I actually think of sharing emotions/soul the same as a conversation, except that here there is no speech but that of the silence felt deep within the soul.

    Would it matter how many folks I shared stories of my life, either one at a time, or a hundred at a time? Never would anyone think of my willingness to share anecdotes as promiscuity, rather, a friendly person who loves to talk to whom ever listens.

    So, while my words might be interpreted of promiscuity as a virtue, it is indeed a virtue to open oneself to a total stranger who, within limits of course (we don't want the creepy guy anywhere next to us), wants nothing more than share a pleasurable dance. And that the next day, the following day, next partner, and hundreds of partner, all leave saying, “You know, it sure is a joy to dance with that person.” So, yes, I think it is a virtue to open oneself and allow others to meet the person we really are... We are, after all, being promiscuous when we dance, be it physically or spiritually, and it truly is a virtue/gift to be able to share the dancefloor with many.
     
  14. merci beaucoup

    merci beaucoup New Member

    Thanks for the replies everybody. Very helpful and much appreciated.
     
  15. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    I share a lot of the feelings expressed by those who have reservations about taking up AT. I'm attracted to AT for the intense lead-follow relationship, but would not want to do it socially. I suffer enough sometimes from subjecting my body to the dancing of random guys who show up at socials, so there's no way I'd want to subject my soul to them! I see it as a dance I would like to do with a regular partner, either romantic or non, but not just with anybody.

    I'm also put off by the "cult-like" aspects and the implication that to do the dance you have to feel a certain way. I totally agree that dance can be a transformative experience, etc., but I think it's up t0 the individual if, when, and how. A dance form that tells me its ideal is a specific emotional experience makes me uncomfortable. I prefer a dance form that presents its ideal as what I must do physically and leaves my feelings to myself.

    I'm also concerned about it messing up my ballroom. From my limited understanding of AT, everything about AT is different--weight placement, posture, movement, etc. I'm at a point where I am working on some specific technical things in ballroom and I don't want to confuse my body.

    One thing that could help attract other kinds of dancers is if, as some posters have said, there are aspects of AT that do transfer to other forms of dancing. I'd go to an "AT for Ballroomers" class that focused on things from AT that would feed into my ballroom. It has crossed my mind to go to a one-time AT workshop for women specifically on following to see if it would improve my following in general. If you offered introductory classes like that, emphasizing similarities with other dances, a lot of people would probably try it and a percentage of them would get hooked and get into the philosophical/emotional aspects.
     
  16. icering

    icering New Member

    the only thing about a dance like that is you have to be seriously into it because it will be hard for you to just somewhere and do it. It seems like it would be easy to forget if you don't practice but where would you practice and use it other than the studio you learner it from? or competiton....i don't know
     
  17. salsamale

    salsamale New Member

    What I was hoping to find in AT, was something similar to bachata, bachata being a sensual dance that can be danced with very simple steps. What I have found is that AT is nothing like bachata. Where one can pick-up bachata in 1 song, I can see that it will take quite a while before my AT looks good and effortless.

    Bachata music, even sad bachata music, has a lilting, uplifting quality. AT music, even the happiest AT music, has an underlying sadness. With that said, in AT, the connection one can feel with one's partner is amazing. AT music lends itself to deep and intense connection.

    The close embrace aspect of AT also appeals to me. That's what I also like about bachata and merengue. Not surprisingly, tangueras seem to be more keen on finding a steady dance partner than salseras. Where salseros and salseras are party people, tangueros and tangueras are romantics.

    AT's emphasis on leading with the chest, I think, is helpful for my salsa, i.e. leading from the core. However, AT's de-emphasis of leading with the hands and arms, seems to mess with my salsa leads, and it often takes me a few songs to recalibrate. Salsa musicality is transferable to AT musicality.

    Learning AT is helping me appreciate the fun aspects of salsa. Too bad I can't find enough time to be fully addicted to both :).
     
  18. dancin/dj

    dancin/dj Member

    AT is well recieved in philly,within the salsa world around here (and im speaking in a general sense) the so called salsa ONLY crowd does not like AT and they disrespect the dance, im talking a certain crowd here folks, and they are spanish speaking folks, who look down upon AT because its not Salsa,what i said for this area, in this context, is the truth not a opionion. i was there at dances when AT would be presented in shows or cultural events etc... or dances studio, almost none of a certain crowd here paid any mind too the dance , the country of argentina. again i was there salsa pura people too coin a frase diiiiiiiiiiiissssssss the dance. i like (REAL AT) myself
     
  19. yippee1999

    yippee1999 Member

    my thoughts on my very limited AT experience...

    the music does nothing for me...it doesn't move me. Maybe I just need to listen to it more before I develop an ear for it??

    it's much more personal and intimate IMHO, than salsa, which in comparison feels much more fleeting, probably due to the very nature of the salsa dance... speed of the dance, fact that man and woman are not as physically close as in tango....

    it's very DIFFERENT than salsa, and requires a whole different mindset I think, whereas when I've tried a few classes in Hustle or WCS, they feel alot more like salsa. But tango... well, when I get the motivation to concentrate on it more and really try to learn it... I think it will require alot more dedication. So for this reason, I seem to be putting it off for now, as I just don't have the time to dedicate/apply myself to learning it as well as I'd like...
     
  20. devane

    devane New Member

    Tango leading is completely different to Salsa leading. I don't know how you would transfer Tango leading concepts into Salsa. The distance is different, leading with your chest NOT your hands, learning to disassociate chest from hips etc...


    Yes the music side of things is similar when they play a milonga. The mood of Milonga music is a happy one. Still a little bit difficult to dance in time when struggling with the moves. You need a firm lead to keep the pace.
    Check out the audition scene in the film Tango, I find it very easier to hear the rhythm in that but Tango music is harder to interpret.


    Tango isn't very forgiving. In salsa people can convince themselves they can do a particular sequence because they can do it in their class. When applied in social dancing if a mistake happens, it tends not to leave you stationary, glued to the floor (someone is on the wrong foot or something?) looking confused. :confused: It takes more time to get up and running in social dancing.



    At the moment I have just returned to Tango after many random classes. I'm allowed to go to the higher class (it started about a year ago) as I can do the things just as well as anybody else but I repeated the beginners class again so I can get the fundamentals right, not just being able to copy the moves when shown but to be able to see the whole picture.

    Now I have time to study what the lady is doing. Not just doing my thing hoping it will sync up with what she is doing, because that what happens when you start out. Also I’m paying more attention to leading correctly. I'm starting to understand things more clearly now. I know why I'm moving my chest to the left before a certain move, instead of just doing it because it's in the sequence. I'm staying in this class until I'm happy with the basics.

    Auto-graduation into the next level based purely by when you started isn't something I believe in. I've suffered these people in the advanced class in Salsa (bunny hoppers, back-leaders, people who can't spin but insist of doubles/triples). What's the point of doing sequences where you not really leading and will surely lead to disaster when social dancing?

    Also I'm encouraged to speak Spanish more as the class is taught bilingually. We are lucky enough to have teachers from Buenos Aires. I've gotten very lazy with that.
     

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